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Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

chicagotribune.com

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Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#81

Post by mbreese »

amitamb wrote: post #24
noibl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, 'one-click'? In Firefox if I click the dropdown on the search field, then click 'Manage Search Engines' I get a dialog in which can be found a link to 'Get more search engines...'. Clicking that opens an add-ons store tab with the 'Search Tools' filter applied, none of whose above-the-fold suggestions has anything to do with DDG. That's not one-click, it's a runaround. In contrast, Chrome automatically adds sea…

To see the difference go to my search engine http://www.verticalset.com/search On Firefox, by clicking "Add to Browser" and checking "Start using Right Away", you can make it default. On Chrome, if you click on same button there is no way to make it default. You have to find the list of search engines in settings and click "Make Default". On IE, process is similar to Firefox. It wouldn't be hard to make this similar…

No offense, but I don't what a website to be able to add themselves (or anyone else) to my browser settings with a javascript call. While it may not be a strict security issue, you could imagine an unscrupulous person registering a very similarly sounding name (b1ng.com, or something unicode-y) that could cause confusion. This is especially true when talking about changing your default search engine.

If you really want to tell people how to add your site as their default, then detect Chrome users and tell them how to do it in Chrome. There is no need to blame Google for this - they aren't treating you differently than anyone else, aside from Bing and Yahoo (who are added to the default list).

While I appreciate that other sites are doing this by default without user interaction, this is just ripe for a phishing attack. So, I would assume this will go away soon.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#82

Post by adventured »

neya wrote: post #73

First of all, in my opinion, executing a frighteningly ambitious idea[1] is like performing inception. You need the simplest version of the idea for it to be "planted" in the user's mind. People aren't using DDG much not because of any difficulties in the browser, because they don't want to. This is a very lame excuse. Google never won its users because they were able to convince users to set their Search Engine as d…

I disagree. From personal experience, I suffer absolutely zero lock in to Google's search engine due to their ecosystem. I use their docs, I have an Android phone, I use Gmail, and I use their search engine completely separate from any of those (regardless of any back-end tie-ins that Google performs to supposedly optimize my search experience).

I specifically go to google.com to search, ditto on my phone. Nothing in their ecosystem prods me to do so, and nothing in their ecosystem prevents me from using a competitor.

I use Google because it's vastly superior to any other search offering. Period.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#83

Post by hahainternet »

yegg wrote: post #80
paulsutter wrote: post #50

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

Hi, this is Gabriel Weinberg, the guy mentioned in the article. The main issue I have is with duck.com. A lot of people remember that we are a search engine "duck something" and so naturally try duck.com. As a result, there is a lot of confusion, e.g.: "I was telling someone about DuckDuckGo and they thought it was Duck.com and they went to Google. Is Google using this to find people who make the mistake to Duck.com…

> Just to be clear, it is only anti-competitive because it causes confusion, and the facts of the situation make it appear to be deliberate. And if it were not deliberate, I've brought this up many times and there has been ample time (including now!) to correct the situation.

So if Google changes it they admit that they may have harmed you and you get a legal remedy. If Google doesn't change it you claim there's no reason not to and you get a moral argument.

Sounds like you're trying to construct a situation where you win and Google loses no matter what. How about just deal with the fact that it's not your domain? I quite like camping.com, doesn't mean I have the right to it.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#84

Post by adventured »

amitamb wrote: post #79
neya wrote: post #73

First of all, in my opinion, executing a frighteningly ambitious idea[1] is like performing inception. You need the simplest version of the idea for it to be "planted" in the user's mind. People aren't using DDG much not because of any difficulties in the browser, because they don't want to. This is a very lame excuse. Google never won its users because they were able to convince users to set their Search Engine as d…

Although you might be right about DuckDuckGo and similar search engines, the article is not claiming that DuckDuckGo is best search engine in the world since it is subjective. It is up to user to make that choice, and given the network effects, that won't happen unless user can easily switch to it. It is about making it even harder for a supposedly better search engine than Google to acquire users.

Did Google win because users were able to easily switch the default search engine in IE to Google? No.

I remember the first times I used Google. It was like magic compared to AltaVista, Yahoo (Inktomi), etc.

DDG has no edge to offer, no 'magic.'

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#85

Post by yegg »

hahainternet wrote: post #83
yegg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, this is Gabriel Weinberg, the guy mentioned in the article. The main issue I have is with duck.com. A lot of people remember that we are a search engine "duck something" and so naturally try duck.com. As a result, there is a lot of confusion, e.g.: "I was telling someone about DuckDuckGo and they thought it was Duck.com and they went to Google. Is Google using this to find people who make the mistake to Duck.com…

> Just to be clear, it is only anti-competitive because it causes confusion, and the facts of the situation make it appear to be deliberate. And if it were not deliberate, I've brought this up many times and there has been ample time (including now!) to correct the situation. So if Google changes it they admit that they may have harmed you and you get a legal remedy. If Google doesn't change it you claim there's no r…

Changing it now isn't a legal admission of anything.

In any case, there would still be no useful legal remedy available to us. We don't make much money, so what would the damages be?

The last thing a startup wants to do is take a big company to court. You're just asking to be bled dry.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#86

Post by davemel37 »

yegg wrote: post #80
paulsutter wrote: post #50

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

Hi, this is Gabriel Weinberg, the guy mentioned in the article. The main issue I have is with duck.com. A lot of people remember that we are a search engine "duck something" and so naturally try duck.com. As a result, there is a lot of confusion, e.g.: "I was telling someone about DuckDuckGo and they thought it was Duck.com and they went to Google. Is Google using this to find people who make the mistake to Duck.com…

I don't see how you can legitimately make a claim on a generic name. I also don't see how this is a monopoly issue. It is a trademark issue, which doesn't have much likelihood of winning. I think i'm gonna start my own search engine called searchsearchfind and than complain about CBS's search.com monopoly.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#87

Post by ok_craig »

javajosh wrote: post #61
paulsutter wrote: post #50

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

Why is your comment the #1 comment? I mean, I count 3, count them, 3 unsubstantiated claims: 1. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? I think it's safe to say, yes, there are some who do. I for one. 2. The problem DDG is solving is imaginary. Oh really? What precisely is that problem? Is it search itself that you're referring to, or the prospect of going up against Google? If the former, then you are delusional, and if…

I think the imaginary problem he meant was searching without being "tracked." The vast majority of users simply don't care. The ones who do can get around it.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#88

Post by fauigerzigerk »

yegg wrote: post #80
paulsutter wrote: post #50

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

Hi, this is Gabriel Weinberg, the guy mentioned in the article. The main issue I have is with duck.com. A lot of people remember that we are a search engine "duck something" and so naturally try duck.com. As a result, there is a lot of confusion, e.g.: "I was telling someone about DuckDuckGo and they thought it was Duck.com and they went to Google. Is Google using this to find people who make the mistake to Duck.com…

There's something else I'm starting to worry about. Some websites (e.g. The Financial Times) restrict access to their subscription only content to the Googlebot (and presumably Bing/Yahoo). Is that something you worry about? Do you just ignore that content or do you talk to the website owners if you feel they are important enough?

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#89

Post by prawn »

yegg wrote: post #80
paulsutter wrote: post #50

This article is pure crybaby bullshit PR about a nonexistent problem. Does anyone care about DDG anyway? They're trying to solve a completely imaginary problem, and they haven't got a hope in hell of creating a viable search engine as that costs billions of dollars. Why is this article even on HN?

Hi, this is Gabriel Weinberg, the guy mentioned in the article. The main issue I have is with duck.com. A lot of people remember that we are a search engine "duck something" and so naturally try duck.com. As a result, there is a lot of confusion, e.g.: "I was telling someone about DuckDuckGo and they thought it was Duck.com and they went to Google. Is Google using this to find people who make the mistake to Duck.com…

"I keep going to Duck.com when meaning to visit DuckDuckGo.com"

Tell them that you called your search engine Duck Duck Go, registered DuckDuckGo.com, and for them to visit DuckDuckGo.com. It's not as though you were ever called Duck.com instead. This just sounds like a petty whinge otherwise. Sorry!

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#90

Post by mseebach2 »

mbreese wrote: post #63
AJ007 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, doing a reverse IP lookup with domain tools shows a list of 1,029 domains currently directing to google.com (some direct to youtube.com) Duck Duck Go has a TM application filed on April 2, 2008. Google acquired duck.com's owner in 2010. There is a very reasonable case for a WIPO domain dispute, which isn't particularly costly (granted if Google lost, and then sued you it would be expensive.) Very good way to ge…

> Duck Duck Go has a TM application filed on April 2, 2008. Google acquired duck.com's owner in 2010. For any sort of mark dispute, you shouldn't go by when Google acquired On2, you have to go by when On2 acquired the name. I assume this was closer to the domain creation date of 1995 (or the On2.com creation date of 1999).

Wouldn't it be a factor that On2 isn't/wasn't in the search space at all? Only after the Google acquisition did duck.com come to be associated with search, and then only by virtue of Google redirecting it to their main page.
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