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Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

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Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#81

Post by mejutoco »

giarc wrote: post #64
mejutoco wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read it is a practice these days to do this fecal "rub" for newborns as a way to compensate for the C-section lack of it. I do not know if it happens in Brazil. Another factor to consider.

I've never heard of moms doing fecal rubs, but I've heard of many that do vaginal "transplants". I work in a hospital and we get questions quite a bit, moms will often take moist, sterile gauze and conduct the transplant themselves (staff can't really be involved for liability issues).

I just saw it in some documentary, but do not remember where. I found these, which look like what I heard described. I believe it is the same you mention:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11095576/

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-03449-4

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#82

Post by rzmmm »

rafram wrote: post #33
leikarnes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that the kids now have less stomachpain, constipation, and are feeling less bloated/nauseous. Thus have less voilent reactions

No, there’s a clear link between gut microbiome and behavioral/mental issues that has nothing to do with physical digestive symptoms. It’s been seen with other disorders, like depression: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/drawing-line-gut-microbiome-inf...

It's a bit speculative. They need placebo-controlled trials and so far the results have not been very convincing for many psychiatric outcomes. There is exciting research around gut microbiota, but many of these studies which make rounds in HN and other online forums, seem to be mostly open-label or uncontrolled studies.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#84

Post by Aurornis »

dimes wrote: post #70
directevolve wrote: post #56

Many autistic children have extremely limited diets. For example, a geneticist friend of mine saw a case where an autistic child had been referred for genetic testing because of horrific, chronic, spontaneous wounds on gums and skin. Turned out to be scurvy, because he had exclusively eaten Wheat Thins for the last 3-4 years, which aren’t fortified with vitamin C. I would fully expect that a monotonous diet leads to…

Just to play devil’s advocate, isn’t it also possible that the preference for a monotonous diet is driven by gut makeup?

The microbiome might have some modulating effect, but the fidelity of gut-brain axis communication isn’t so strong that our gut microbiome is driving us around with highly specific inputs.

The theories for how gut-brain axis modulation works include altering the balance of nutrients that get absorbed and modulating the vagus nerve, primarily. For someone with autism it might be possible that altering some of these balances could make the condition better or worse, but that’s all theory without much foundation.

What is known, however, is that diet has a massive impact on the microbiome. Even the mechanism for that is obvious: Bacteria thrive on different foods, so if you eat more of one class of nutrients and less of another then the microbiome proportions will adjust based on which ones thrive on that diet.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#85

Post by Balgair »

tt_dev wrote: post #76

Title is a bit misleading. It’s not a fecal transplant. It’s tablets and powder (for the pitt-hopkins cases) of microbes from fecal donors. Consumes orally. More like fecal food?

What did you think a fecal transplant was?

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#86

Post by therobots927 »

stephenitis wrote: post #79
dimes wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to play devil’s advocate, isn’t it also possible that the preference for a monotonous diet is driven by gut makeup?

You seed the gut with nutrients. having lots of fiber and a varied diet increases the number of species that an adult has which is between a couple hundred to a thousand or so. Our guts are generally dominated by a bunch of beneficial bacteria. which for many is not the case for a variety of social economic or behavioral reasons. Add in with explosions of bacterial populations due to alcohol or sugar and you can see…

I’ve noticed I really need to keep alcohol and sugar consumption in check. Sometimes it seems like one drink is enough to kick off a gut ecosystem collapse, and other times my gut is more resistant to the effects. Definitely trying to increase fiber consumption significantly.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#87

Post by markgall »

_puk wrote: post #42

>> In early 2022 Krajmalnik-Brown and colleagues patented a specific bacterial formulation and spun-off a commercial company called Gut-Brain Axis Therapeutics. I was a little surprised to see this. So the university researchers use time and money from the university to make a discovery, extending on previous published research, and then patent it and start their own for-profit? Excuse my ignorance, but is that how i…

As others have said, very common. A famous example is Lyrica, which made an enormous amount of money for Northwestern, probably around $1 billion dollars. It played a not-insignificant role in the university's rise in the last 10-20 years.

Universities love this and encourage it. Any big place will have an office of "technology transfer" or similar to help researchers make this happen.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#88

Post by dahart »

an0malous wrote: post #48
_puk wrote: post #42

>> In early 2022 Krajmalnik-Brown and colleagues patented a specific bacterial formulation and spun-off a commercial company called Gut-Brain Axis Therapeutics. I was a little surprised to see this. So the university researchers use time and money from the university to make a discovery, extending on previous published research, and then patent it and start their own for-profit? Excuse my ignorance, but is that how i…

> So the university researchers use time and money from the university Don’t worry, the money is usually coming from taxpayers so the universities don’t have to dip into their endowments

Funny thing is, that may be a bigger concern here, that the research is often publicly funded while the uses of that research and the profits that come with them are kept private. It’s complicated and I buy the notion that research improves the economy as a whole, but it is also true that when research gets patented and becomes a billion dollar product, those dollars don’t reduce any taxes directly.
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