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The AI zombification of universities

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Re: The AI zombification of universities

#81

Post by overgard »

paulpauper wrote: post #6

Universities will still act as gatekeepers of prestige and status. There is no AI alternative to the top-20 schools...I remember all the hype from 10-15 years ago about how online learning and "MIT courseware" would upend the universities or threaten credentialism, and nothing even close to that happened. As it turned out, the online version of MIT is not a substitute for the actual thing. Schools will adapt, as they…

On the other hand, it would be really good if universities stopped being gatekeepers of prestige and status. It seems like some of the biggest idiots in high visibility posts right now come from the ivy league..

I'm not sure if an ivy league education proves anything anymore other than that you're connected.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#82

Post by singpolyma3 »

StableAlkyne wrote: post #52
singpolyma3 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard, just unpopular. End credentialism, stop giving out grades or administering exams.

The (Western) educational system still does this for PhDs. Grades barely matter, and in most places you have two oral exams in your entire 5 years: your qualifying exam, and your final defense. The reason it doesn't happen for the rest of the system is scaling. The US awards about 60k PhDs per year, compared to about 2M bachelors. There simply are not enough faculty and it is not realistic to hire enough (if there ar…

Since everyone has a meaningless degree already the degree absolutely does not get you hired for over a decade already. Interview outcome, which sure you could call vibes

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#83

Post by technothrasher »

paulorlando wrote: post #42

Profs can push back on this if they want. Not all of them want to (or want to justify pushback given their pay). For me when I teach, no laptops or phones in class along with in-class handwritten paper quizzes on course readings and concepts has helped a lot.

Clearly not all of them want to do so. My son just finished up his freshman year at college. A couple months ago he called me and told me about an interaction he had with his English composition professor. She asked the class how they were integrating AI into their writing process. When she got to him, he said he didn't use AI, as he wanted to use the assignments to learn to write better. Her response was, "Well, you're probably too advanced for this class then." This is my son, who has a dysgraphia diagnosis, being told he is "too advanced" for freshman English class because he doesn't use AI to do his writing.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#84

Post by rspeele »

overgard wrote: post #64

I can't help but wonder if the fundamental problem is just that we spent decades pretending that a university degree was some sort of useful job training in the first place. As a professional software developer, I think my computer science degree is not actually all that important. Sure there are some relevant concepts, but they're ones you'd pick up on the job anyway. I don't regret getting my degree (back in 2009),…

Even though the degree really didn't teach you what you'd do on the job, it was a signal to employers that 1. you were capable of learning stuff when needed, 2. you didn't give up on doing hard things, and 3. they wouldn't have to explain to you what a loop or a class is.

With rampant AI cheating it's no longer a guarantee of any of those.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#85

Post by [deleted] »

paulpauper wrote: post #6

Universities will still act as gatekeepers of prestige and status. There is no AI alternative to the top-20 schools...I remember all the hype from 10-15 years ago about how online learning and "MIT courseware" would upend the universities or threaten credentialism, and nothing even close to that happened. As it turned out, the online version of MIT is not a substitute for the actual thing. Schools will adapt, as they…

[deleted]

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#86

Post by asdff »

kranke155 wrote: post #55
XorNot wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but I need a job to live. And if I want to do something interesting I need the skills and knowledge which are learned at a college level.

You need a job to live - under the current economic system. a lot of the critiques of capitalism lead you straight into ai, and most economic critiques of AI are critiques of capitalism as it exists now .

You've needed a job to live for all of human history going back to whatever ancestor you like. That job is called survival. All modern life is doing is delegating that effort across many people such as to benefit from economies of scale. I don't need to fish for my sustenance because someone else is doing the fishing. I contribute in some other way that gives me credits to access the fishing take. People act like capitalism is some new evil but it is little different than the delegated labor you might find in a prehistorical tribe. The fundamental rules of this system are really the only way our species survives. The issue is sometimes compensation is uneven for the effort, but that is really it, not that the system itself is a failure. I'm not sure of any system that wouldn't be like this. What is communism but capitalism where compensation is more evenly distributed? It is still a game of delegating certain tasks to certain individuals such that one individual is not responsible for 100% of their own survival.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#87

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

simoncion wrote: post #53
Morromist wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that no-tech parts of universities would work - obviously you can't avoid tech when teaching some things like coding, but mostly I think it would be a good idea. There are problems: Having students attend lectures is great but they have to work with the material and prove they understand it - how to do that without homework? I'm sure there are ways. Have them work in a building full of computers cut-…

> ...how to do that without homework? Tests. Many of my university courses only graded on tests. They strongly encouraged you to do the homework to better understand the material, but didn't consider homework completion when calculating your grade. Consider that universities are educating adults who are -often- paying to be there. If we assume competent course design and instruction, if an adult chooses to not work o…

I liked the classes I had with a "reverse" format: the "homework" was done in-class, checked for correctness but not part of the grade, and the lecture was a recording watched at home.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#88

Post by positron26 »

graceful6800 wrote: post #71
spicyusername wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These problems are all because of a culture that favours the measurement over what is being measured. What other kind of culture is there? A culture of not measuring?

Read the last four words of the sentence you quoted. You'll find your answer.

[flagged]

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#89

Post by [deleted] »

asdff wrote: post #78
corywadd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest the one exception to this would be courses explicitly designed to teach how to use AI, and how not to. But in that case, it's less "use AI to cheat on this course" and "AI is the tool this course is about." Otherwise your suggestion makes sense.

Then it becomes, teach what? "To use AI", yes, and, then, to do what? Use it how? To make some software? Why? You are already taking software engineering classes to learn to make software. To write something? Why? You are already taking classes that ask you write things yourself. An AI class, to me at least, is akin to taking a class about how to pay someone to write your essay for you. And if we are talking about th…

[deleted]

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#90

Post by ghaff »

dgellow wrote: post #63

Overall it’s a very good read, really enjoyed the author voice and style > I don’t think she was laughing two years later when I was TAing the class and we observed a fairly distinct gap of about 40 percentage points between the take-home test and the one administered in-person. 40pp is massive. Take homes are pretty much dead at that point. And not just in schools, but also for interviews. I don’t see how you can ge…

I had very few take-homes in school (discounting project courses which were very time consuming). One of the problems with take-homes in most interview situations is that, at least for developer jobs, the reality (whatever the stated guardrails are) is that this will be at least a weekend project. That said, I've spent multiple days traveling and doing related things for an on-site interview which I realize not everyone here would find acceptible.
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