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The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

theatlantic.com

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Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#81

Post by eesmith »

stravant wrote: post #50
aspenmartin wrote: post #45

Ignoring CEO predictions, can anyone point to any major revolutionary technology that had a net negative impact on quality of life and employment statistics? AI is an incredibly powerful technological shift in our way of life but where is the net employment hit taking place? Unemployment numbers remain stable. Revolutions like this do create widening inequality while also increasing long run productivity. Yes inequal…

Don't ignore the transient. The industrial revolution created a hell on Earth for workers for the better part of a century.

Or as the article puts it:

"Over the long run, it’s true that the Industrial Revolution radically boosted economic growth. But living through it was another matter entirely. Many people saw their wages stagnate and working conditions deteriorate as factory owners and industrialists came into immense wealth. (Just read a Charles Dickens novel, and you’ll get the idea.) This led to riots and, occasionally, attacks on the industrialists themselves."

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#82

Post by ryanackley »

JohnFen wrote: post #73
ryanackley wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure working sucks, but have you tried not working? I think this is from lived experience because I've gone for stretches of not working (intentionally). It can be challenging to find a sense of fulfillment. I know it seems counter-intuitive but if you do succeed in your dream of retiring in your 50's I think you'll understand what I mean when you get there.

I think this varies wildly from person to person. I've also intentionally gone long stretches without working and those are the times when I've had a dramatically increased sense of purpose and fulfillment. Working for others reduces those things for me. I'm in the age group where a lot of the people around me have retired. Some of them have fared very poorly, some have straight-up blossomed.

Ok but one of the great things about retiring when everyone else does is you have a community. If you stop working when you're young, everyone else in your network is probably still working.

I'm not against early retirement. One of my points was that, in general, it's harder to find fulfillment as a working age adult outside of work. Not impossible, just more challenging.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#83

Post by ryanackley »

bachmeier wrote: post #80
ryanackley wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure working sucks, but have you tried not working? I think this is from lived experience because I've gone for stretches of not working (intentionally). It can be challenging to find a sense of fulfillment. I know it seems counter-intuitive but if you do succeed in your dream of retiring in your 50's I think you'll understand what I mean when you get there.

Sorry, but your comment isn't really responding to OP's main point. > It can be challenging to find a sense of fulfillment. If you actually get fulfillment from work, then great, continue to work. The critical thing that drives people to retire earlier than the average person is that their work doesn't give them a sense of fulfillment. It's literally just a way to fill out the day. Some people do have things that are…

Yes, it was responding. One of my points was that it has nothing to do with society's expectations but people's lived experiences and observations.

You seem to think I'm advocating for working your entire life. I'm just trying to share my lived experience so please take it easy.

There is some bitterness that's coming across in your response.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#84

Post by bluecheese452 »

lorecore wrote: post #62
bluecheese452 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes finite things are finite. Glad we cleared up it.

Finite means not free. Who will pay?

If your magic robot is magic enough you own anything you want. You pay with the oldest currency in the world. Might.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#85

Post by mrhottakes »

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #52
mrhottakes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 100% accurate to say that the history of the United States is filled to the brim with political change via violence.

Some friends and I read "A People's History of the United States" a while back and were surprised at how true this is. US classroom history textbooks hold civil disobedience up as the One True Way to bring change, but it's alarming how often the backdrop of famous acts of civil disobedience was in fact incredible violence. Our conclusion in our impromptu book club was that made sense: why would the state schools give…

A truly fantastic book. I'm glad to hear of more people checking it out.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#86

Post by bluecheese452 »

pelotron wrote: post #76
bluecheese452 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a magic robot that builds everything you want you don’t need anyone to buy anything. Jfc this site is the worst. Use your words instead of drive by downvoting.

Then all you have to do is magically convince the owners of the magic robot to give all their products away for free.

They already have way more than they could ever use and still try to take more.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#87

Post by Henchman21 »

mrhottakes wrote: post #29
thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

It's the same "give me a lot of money and everything will be great for everyone!" pitch that rich guys have been running for the history of humanity.

It is almost like the interconnectedness the internet has given us has laid bare the fact that human institutions aren’t to be trusted. That the longer an institution exists the further it drifts from whatever its stated purpose. That they all tend towards corruption, aggregation of power, and actions that are by most people’s definition evil.

Or something :)

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#88

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

randycupertino wrote: post #59
thomascgalvin wrote: post #5

People like Altman and Musk are saying that Universal Basic Income will be necessary once AI has fully automated away most jobs, but at the same time they aggressively fight against any kind of tax policy that would allow UBI to function. I am convinced that their talk of UBI is just handwaving; they're trying to convince us that there will be a solution to the destruction of the economy as we know it, so that we'll…

Given how resistant American voters and politicians are against any sort of welfare or social assistance I doubt UBI would ever be possible here. Remember the backlash against "ObamaPhones" and "welfare queens!" We can't even get mandatory paid parental leave approved; UBI would be a non-starter. Americans are fine with low taxes for billionaires and don't mind high inequality as one of their core beliefs is that upw…

You do have to imagine the political environment where unemployment is rapidly climbing among the middle class rather than the current status quo if your intent is to accurately predict the future.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#89

Post by bluecheese452 »

nervousvarun wrote: post #79
bluecheese452 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not allow it? They insist upon it! The controlling votes are all part of the same social class. They would gladly give up a small amount of profit to keep the distance between them and the workers as large as possible.

To the extent it doesn't negatively impact the stock price sure but you would agree the CEO and any sort of power-trip they have is ultimately beholden to that right?

If he goes against what they want absolutely. If he introduced a 4 day work week for example he would be in big trouble.

Re: The AI Backlash Could Get Ugly

#90

Post by Balgair »

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #52
mrhottakes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 100% accurate to say that the history of the United States is filled to the brim with political change via violence.

Some friends and I read "A People's History of the United States" a while back and were surprised at how true this is. US classroom history textbooks hold civil disobedience up as the One True Way to bring change, but it's alarming how often the backdrop of famous acts of civil disobedience was in fact incredible violence. Our conclusion in our impromptu book club was that made sense: why would the state schools give…

Tomas Rick's Waging a Good War: A Military History of the Civil Rights Movement 1954-68 should be required reading at this point

https://www.amazon.com/Waging-Good-War-Military-1954-1968/dp...

Ricks kinda beats a dead horse as he goes over and over again that non-violence is not unaggressive. It is typically quite militant when done well.

Non violence is a tactic, one that is typically better at achieving results than violence, as it tends to change the other side that is violent to adjust down to non violence as well. Like getting a drunk to be quieter by whispering to them (Note: that is a poor analogy).

Rick's book is just so very good and my poor internet comment can't possibly do it justice. He convinced me that the Civil Rights movement is so big because it gave the US a brand new tool in conflicts. It's not just violence or submission anymore.

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