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I Will Never Use AI to Code

antman-does-software.com

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Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#81

Post by frizlab »

ok_dad wrote: post #15

I was a hand tool woodworker, but the first time I had to rip 56 6 foot boards into 7 strips I immediately purchased a table saw. Now I use hand tools rarely because I find the speed and quality of my cuts are better. I still use hand tools for things that require certain standards, but electric tools almost always produce better quality results. It’s about the same for AI coding, I just get better results.

This makes no sense.

Your table saw does not randomly cut sideways because it “feels” like it. AI might.

Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#82

Post by ok_dad »

frizlab wrote: post #81
ok_dad wrote: post #15

I was a hand tool woodworker, but the first time I had to rip 56 6 foot boards into 7 strips I immediately purchased a table saw. Now I use hand tools rarely because I find the speed and quality of my cuts are better. I still use hand tools for things that require certain standards, but electric tools almost always produce better quality results. It’s about the same for AI coding, I just get better results.

This makes no sense. Your table saw does not randomly cut sideways because it “feels” like it. AI might.

You’d be surprised at the things table saws do when the wood has imperfections. I’ve had to buy new lumber when I fuck up a rip. Circular saws are maybe a better example because with both those and AI you need skills to use them properly.

Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#83

Post by ok_dad »

xigoi wrote: post #68
ok_dad wrote: post #15

I was a hand tool woodworker, but the first time I had to rip 56 6 foot boards into 7 strips I immediately purchased a table saw. Now I use hand tools rarely because I find the speed and quality of my cuts are better. I still use hand tools for things that require certain standards, but electric tools almost always produce better quality results. It’s about the same for AI coding, I just get better results.

Does your saw require you to pay for each use?

Yea you gotta buy blades.

I spend more for wood and tools than I do tokens.

Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#84

Post by ok_dad »

archagon wrote: post #48
ok_dad wrote: post #15

I was a hand tool woodworker, but the first time I had to rip 56 6 foot boards into 7 strips I immediately purchased a table saw. Now I use hand tools rarely because I find the speed and quality of my cuts are better. I still use hand tools for things that require certain standards, but electric tools almost always produce better quality results. It’s about the same for AI coding, I just get better results.

A table saw does not make decisions for you.

I don’t let AI either, I tell it what I want and it builds it to my exact specs. Not vibing, I specify the interface and what the functionality should be then I verify it. I just don’t have to press the keyboard. The result is what I’d have built, but it’s easier to polish because there’s a difference between thinking about code and thinking about architecture and functionality.

You guys are really not understanding the difference between a professional using AI tools properly and vibe coding.

Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#85

Post by ok_dad »

krapp wrote: post #73
ok_dad wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is talking about AI coding like only brainless idiots are using it. I’m a professional, I can judge and fix the clankers output. I don’t give a shit if some other idiot is using their tools right.

The vast majority of people using AI to code, even in production, are brainless idiots. Not knowing anything about the process and not needing to care is the entire draw of AI for most people regardless of the medium, and particularly for employers. Processes are moving to eliminate humans from the loop of AI production, not to require them. People like you are an anomaly, not the norm. "I wrote an entire production…

I don’t agree with the presentation, but the dead comment here has a point I agree with.

Most developers were shit before, and now they’re just faster at that shit.

AI isn’t the cause, it’s a tool being misused. Misused at a grand scale, indeed. I don’t care, that’s literally not my problem. I can’t do anything about it, so I don’t complain, I use the tool the way that helps me without producing garbage. I can only control myself and what I do with this tool, why would I get anxiety about what others are doing? Some guy is probably driving his car too fast and killing someone this instant, and vibe coding isn’t doing anything near as bad.

Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#86

Post by ok_dad »

b112 wrote: post #40
ok_dad wrote: post #15

I was a hand tool woodworker, but the first time I had to rip 56 6 foot boards into 7 strips I immediately purchased a table saw. Now I use hand tools rarely because I find the speed and quality of my cuts are better. I still use hand tools for things that require certain standards, but electric tools almost always produce better quality results. It’s about the same for AI coding, I just get better results.

Is it? Isn't the inverse? The speed of your cuts is improved with AI a bit, but aren't the cuts all rough and need additional work? Isn't the quality less than what you would do by hand? Because that's what every AI usage I've experienced has been. Faster, yes. Useful, yes. Not better "finish".

Nah I get better results in the end with a clanker helping me. I specify down to interfaces and stuff, I only let the bot put the functional code in, then I review it. I find AI coding tools are a real benefit for me and my quality. Not so much speed, I would say a project takes at least the same amount of time, or more, than before I used AI tools. I can talk more about it if you’re curious, maybe I should record a session so people can see how you’re supposed to use AI coding agents.

Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#88

Post by globular-toast »

ok_dad wrote: post #85
krapp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of people using AI to code, even in production, are brainless idiots. Not knowing anything about the process and not needing to care is the entire draw of AI for most people regardless of the medium, and particularly for employers. Processes are moving to eliminate humans from the loop of AI production, not to require them. People like you are an anomaly, not the norm. "I wrote an entire production…

I don’t agree with the presentation, but the dead comment here has a point I agree with. Most developers were shit before, and now they’re just faster at that shit. AI isn’t the cause, it’s a tool being misused. Misused at a grand scale, indeed. I don’t care, that’s literally not my problem. I can’t do anything about it, so I don’t complain, I use the tool the way that helps me without producing garbage. I can only c…

> Some guy is probably driving his car too fast and killing someone this instant, and vibe coding isn’t doing anything near as bad.

Yet. Cars probably didn't kill random members of the public in the first two years of existence either. Even after their obvious dangers were understood it would be decades before pollution and the effects of roads everywhere, urbanisation and sprawl would be understood. Even though the externalities are now acknowledged we still struggle to do anything about it, over a century later.

Is it too much to ask to learn from our mistakes and not let the same thing happen again and again?

Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#89

Post by queenkjuul »

Anthony261 wrote: post #62
anon22981 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect people with opinions like the author’s haven’t been in a project where people use LLMs responsibly. We had a senior dev basically just prompt and push, with very little overseeing and minimal instructions, causing so many bad PRs and even prod bugs. That made me a sceptic for many months about agents. Then we started to have (myself included) people actual plan out the tasks for the bot: give good specs, go…

Nope. My point is not about the quality of the generated code, it's the fact that it was generated. No matter how good it is it will always be a liability without the accompanying asset which is the understanding produced by undertaking the effort of writing the code. Generated code is exclusively cognitive debt. It is also, by definition, legacy code since no one wrote it.

Look I hate AI "prose" and "art" with a deep passion, and i refuse to let an LLM touch my documentation, but this idea that you can't use an LLM to write decent code that you genuinely comprehend is outdated. Many developers choose not to, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

I have coworkers who use an LLM who can explain and defend every line of every PR. I also have coworkers who just prompt and pray. Only one camp is producing genuine liabilities.

Re: I Will Never Use AI to Code

#90

Post by queenkjuul »

I won't use AI to _write_, like write documentation, articles, etc. They are so intolerably bad at writing natural sounding English, and producing concise relevant text, i can't stand it.

Code, though, is a different story. It took a long time for the models to be good enough to not just screw up 100% of the time, but I do now genuinely find them useful in some cases.

There's still a lot of code I insist on writing manually, but i no longer refuse AI code entirely. It's most useful for debugging though imo, and as a "smarter rubber duck"

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