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The Vatican's Website in Latin

vatican.va

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Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#82
post #49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former Latin instructor with literally decades of experience, I strongly recommend not relying solely on Ørberg. The outcomes of those who refused to supplement it with a proper grammar and dictionary were far, far behind those who used Wheelock alone. It's very popular online, but it's methodologically bunk.

Thanks for the perspective! I guess it depends on the outcomes in question If they're measured by traditional academic metrics (parsing, recalling declension tables, translating into English), then Wheelock's grammar-first approach really does optimize for that. On the other hand Ørberg optimizes more for reading fluency and intuitive comprehension, which is harder to measure on a standard Latin exam.

Intuitive comprehension works much better for Medieval Latin, like that used in the scientific publications of the 16th/17th/18th/19th centuries, i.e. the kind of Latin that would be used by people like Newton or Gauss.

Medieval Latin is influenced by the modern European languages, so it uses a similar word order and similar methods for expressing various things.

On the other hand for Classic Latin, e.g. for works written during the late Roman Republic and early Roman Empire, a thorough knowledge of Latin grammar is absolutely essential for understanding the texts.

The order of words can be very different from what a modern European expects, and frequently you cannot understand which is the syntactic role of some word without being able to recognize precisely various grammatical markers for case, mood, time etc.

Understanding Latin grammar in isolation is more difficult than when you also know at least some things about the historical evolution of the Latin grammar and its correspondences with Ancient Greek grammar and Proto-Indo-European grammar.

For learning any language, in my opinion it is less important to use textbooks, than to start as early as possible to try to understand something that you are interested in, for example a movie spoken in the target language or a book written in it. For Latin obviously you must start by reading some books, since it is a dead language. An example of a relatively easy book is Caesar's book about the Gallic Wars. Another easy choice is the Natural History of Pliny the Elder. The simplest way is to use bilingual editions, like those of the Loeb Library, and to consult a grammar and a dictionary whenever you do not understand yet something (because in a bilingual edition you may look at the English page to get the general meaning, which can guide you, allowing to avoid too frequent interrupts for searching a dictionary, but that does not have a word-to-word correspondence with the Latin sentence that you must understand).

There is a good Latin dictionary that is online:

https://www.prima-elementa.fr/Gaffiot/Gaffiot-dico.html

but it is a Latin-French dictionary, so you must know French (or you may use Google translate or an LLM for French, which are far more reliable for translating French to English than when translating Latin to English). A dictionary provides additional essential information not normally available in automatic translations, like which vowels are long, related grammatical forms and a long list of possible meanings with examples of usage.

A large number of Latin books are online at:

https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#85
post #11

If anyone is interested in learning it, there's nothing better than Ørberg's Lingua Latina per se Illustrata. It's entirely in Latin, including grammar explanations, but it starts out incredibly simple and ramps up gradually with lots of repetition. And that's fun AND effective, since you're immersed rather than grinding tables.

I like the approach in Lingua Latina per se Illustrata (sometimes called the "natural method"). I've noticed that it was adapted for other languages too, but most of the adaptations seemed old and outdated.

Recently I was wondering if I should work on a modernization of the concept (using audio and a more interactive medium). If anyone has thoughts on this topic, I'd be happy to discuss more.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#87

I imagine a parallel universe where Latin is used as lingua franca instead of English. If you squint enough you can see English as a barbarised form of Latin.

It'd be more a return to the past, we still had a lot of latin in science a couple hundred years ago. One very fun thing I discovered recently is that Dante (and presumably other people in the middle ages) thought that Latin was a constructed language designed to go over linguistic differences, and that's why it had a proper grammar, unlike romance languages :)

Dante was not completely wrong, since much of the written Latin we have was a formalised and standardised version, whereas Romance languages are descendants of the Latin people actually spoke.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#88
post #36

They have 10 languages linked from their home page ( https://www.vatican.va/content/vatican/en.html ). Latin and Chinese are the only two that don't have the home page same design. Maybe they've laid-off some of their translators.

I'm surprised Russian isn't on there.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#89
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duolingo has a Latin course.

After trying Duolingo a bit myself and seeing my family members try it, I've become convinced that Duolingo is worse than doing nothing, because it does a much better job of convincing you that you're learning than it does actually teaching you.

The courses vary a bit. The Welsh course, for example, is not that great. I have heard that off both serious learners and native speakers.

I've found it fairly useful for picking up other alphabets, as opposed to languages.

Re: The Vatican's Website in Latin

#90
post #36

They have 10 languages linked from their home page ( https://www.vatican.va/content/vatican/en.html ). Latin and Chinese are the only two that don't have the home page same design. Maybe they've laid-off some of their translators.

I'm surprised Russian isn't on there.

Why? Most Russians are Orthodox, not Catholic
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