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Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

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Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#81

Post by scarmig »

gadders wrote: post #35
aes256 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heavy bombing of densely populated areas? It's rather simple. As a general rule, civilians in the Gaza Strip know if they are near a target. You don't live next to a rocket manufacturing, storage or launch site without knowing about it. The IDF have gone to great pains to warn civilians not to go near these sites, or to mix with combatants. They send text messages, drop leaflets, even make phone calls with recorded m…

I think you can also draw a distinction between deliberately targetting civilians and doing all you can to avoid hitting them.

Doing all you can to avoid hitting them except, say, not launching missiles in the vicinity of their houses.

I get it: Hamas is a morally monstrous organization. I agree with that wholeheartedly. But there's such a thing as proportionate response. For every Israeli civilian that's killed, many more (greater than 10, at the least) Palestinian civilians are killed. The fact that Hamas is barbaric and doesn't have laser guided missiles doesn't change the fact that innocent people are being bombed to death.

What should Israel do? Well, frack if I know. But "we're trapped in a conflict with a barbaric organization, so we must be barbaric, too, to compete with them" means you can't complain when people call you barbaric.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#82

Post by kamaal »

As an Indian and somebody who studied the non violence moment of Gandhi both in South Africa and India. I can talk about the nature of political movements, I studied in quite a great detail. Even in India, the nature of non violence movement was not completely non violent- Its true that non violence came as a overwhelming force for the British. But the British did deal and perceive violent revolutionary sources as a equally big threat. There is always a big debate in India that Bhagat Singh was an equally big threat to British, as much as Gandhi. There were and continued to be pockets of violence till the Indian independence.

Secondly, violent attacks don't often serve any thing more than 'symbolism'.In this case, there is a century long history, of a persecuted community being settled on already existing nation. Now persecuted community has its reasons, but the existing people see why they are being driven out and find no acceptable reason for that. Add to this, a massive refugee problem, being forced to live densely crowded areas. No adequate supply of food, water, medicine, electricity for 50 years now. Sub human sanitation conditions. Having to endow the humiliation to stop at check points to move around in their own country, watch their land being endlessly consumed by settlers. Coupled with this the occupier has, a endless diplomatic, military and financial support of the biggest super power in human history. The oppressed can do nothing about it, because the military option isn't even an option. Diplomatic doors are closed.

If you feel these sort of people to not get frustrated, something is wrong about your understanding of human emotions.

Its in the human nature to empathize with the oppressed. And in fact this is the biggest problem with the kind of activity Anonymous has done. Israel isn't troubled because websites are going down for a couple of hours, they are troubled that there are people with some power and say in their hands, who empathize with the Palestinians. This is dangerous, and even fatal for the Israelis. Far more dangerous than the rockets themselves.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#83

Post by sverige »

pyre wrote: post #73
chrisherring wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 sided view of the conflict. So are you claiming Hamas is innocent here? That they aren't attacking innoccent civilians?

Your responses just sound like the older sibling pointing at the younger sibling and saying, "but he was doing it too!" To some extent someone has to stand up and be the adult in this conflict. Heavy-handed responses to Palestinian bombs hasn't ended this conflict in the past, and I see no reason that it will do so in the future. I don't have a solution to the conflict, but acting like Israeli responses of this kind…

Thankfully, Anonymous has painted a portrait of what an adult response looks like.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#84

Post by maratd »

hkrr wrote: post #42
lhnn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Toronto were launching rockets at Detroit, I think the US would strike a staging area, even if some civilians were in the way.

Funny comparison. Let me try mine : If Canada was no country but a territory where people were denied the right to have a state to live in, and if they were launching rockets at the US, I think the US would colonize Toronto and declare the city part of the US. Wait no, I don't.

> where people were denied the right to have a state to live in

You realize Hamas was voted in, right?

1. Elected government? Check.

2. Borders? Check.

They have a state. Not being formally recognized in the UN is just that ... a formality.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#85

Post by kamaal »

aes256 wrote: post #70
kamaal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza There are more than 1.5 million people living on the 45 km^2 stretch of land. Are you seriously asking them to run? Run to where? Sea? or towards the sky? No wonder it has been compared to a concentration camp or an open air prison. Classic victim blaming to say the least. Drop leaflets and then get a free permit to bomb them. If some should die, tell them you are the good guy…

This isn't carpet-bombing. Israel are only engaging in pinpoint strikes on legitimate military targets. Where should citizens run? Around 100m away from any rocket manufacturing, storage or launch site should be sufficient. That means most of the Gaza Strip is safe.

No sorry you don't address the point everybody else is making in this thread, which is that you seem to suggest bombing is OK as long you pre-inform the people you plan bomb couple of hours before.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#86

Post by kamaal »

maratd wrote: post #74
kamaal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the parties are to blame here. Killings can't be justified no matter who does it. Its has to stop, terrorizing civilians in large cities is as much a cowardly act as much sending F-16s to bomb a helpless crowd.

I found a problem with your argument. Nobody is sending F-16s to bomb "helpless crowds". Only rocket launching sites.

And that kills kids, and UN inspectors and civilians. And of course these rocket launchers are wrong too, needless to say their rockets kill kids and civilians too.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#87

Post by soul2ebl »

aes256 wrote: post #72
AtlasLion wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, they should have special military bases, and while at it, give the IDF the exact coordinates. That should help their cause a lot.

The effectiveness of using civilians as human shields does not justify the practice.

YOU ARE AN IGNORANT TROLL! STUPID PEOPLE TEND TO BE MORE CONFIDENT BECAUSE THEY LACK KNOWLEDGE.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#88

Post by soul2ebl »

aes256 wrote: post #16
guelo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's not as if the heavy bombing of a densely populated defenseless area is healing anything either.

Heavy bombing of densely populated areas? It's rather simple. As a general rule, civilians in the Gaza Strip know if they are near a target. You don't live next to a rocket manufacturing, storage or launch site without knowing about it. The IDF have gone to great pains to warn civilians not to go near these sites, or to mix with combatants. They send text messages, drop leaflets, even make phone calls with recorded m…

YOU ARE AN IGNORANT TROLL! STUPID PEOPLE TEND TO BE MORE CONFIDENT BECAUSE THEY LACK KNOWLEDGE.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#89

Post by soul2ebl »

aes256 wrote: post #30
kaonashi wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza is among the most densely populated areas on Earth. It is simply not feasible for civilians to comply with such orders.

There are both dense and sparsely populated areas of the Strip. Israel are not carpet-bombing the area, they are performing pinpoint strikes on legitimate military targets. As a civilian, it is not difficult to avoid those targets.

YOU ARE AN IGNORANT TROLL! STUPID PEOPLE TEND TO BE MORE CONFIDENT BECAUSE THEY LACK KNOWLEDGE.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#90

Post by soul2ebl »

aes256 wrote: post #69
pyre wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said: > As a civilian, it is not difficult to avoid those > targets. Then you said: > It's a large-scale armed conflict. Civilians are > going to get caught in the crossfire. If it's not so hard for civilians to avoid these areas, then why is it inevitable that they be caught in the crossfire? The idea that Israel is somehow free of 'blood on their hands' because they try to warn people to leave the area for the…

> If it's not so hard to civilians to avoid these areas, then why is it inevitable that they be caught in the crossfire? Nothing is perfect. Equipment malfunctions, mistaken intel, and human error can all lead to civilian casualties, despite the best precautions.

YOU ARE AN IGNORANT TROLL! STUPID PEOPLE TEND TO BE MORE CONFIDENT BECAUSE THEY LACK KNOWLEDGE.
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