Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

juraj.bednar.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 222 posts

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#81

Post by Muromec »

grey-area wrote: post #23

Digital ids are inevitable in my view, just as digital currency has become inescapable because it is more convenient and efficient, these ids will be issued and things like paper proofs of identity will fall away over time. Physical tokens like bank cards and driving licenses are neither necessary nor a good solution in a networked world. Our focus therefore should be controlling what governments can do with them - f…

I can't help but think people mean something else when they hear "digital ids" then what they are. Like I have a digital id from the government of the Netherlands that I use to log into their government systems to declare taxes or what not. I had an X509 certificate issued by Ukrainian government and have their app to do the same.

It's bad somehow?

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#82

Post by sunaookami »

bootsmann wrote: post #60
sunaookami wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some of the biggest social media influencer accounts turns out to be Chinese/Russian bots trying to fuel hate/division our democracies This is propaganda, none of those supposed networks exists or were successful in anything and when the media do show some supposed accounts they don't have a lot of views. Please stop falling for this, your democracy sucks because the politicians suck and the people want change so th…

Yes, obviously, the Romanian supreme court having to overturn and annul a presidential election due to Russian social media inference is entirely made up propaganda.

Romania's courts are corrupt and not independent.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#83

Post by pzo »

jeroenhd wrote: post #59

It's not a trojan horse, it's spelled out in the decision, debates, and legal texts to be the explicit goal. The age verification requirement was picked both as a means to prove the technology is sound and as a simple starting point for a full digital ID solution. The EU already has some form of digital ID in fact, every government provides some kind of OIDC-like service tied to either smart cards or accounts that au…

The difference you barely have to show you physical ID - mostly only when interacting with bank, signing document, government. I never got asked when buying alcohol and if asked at least I would only let to have a look instead of snapping a picture.

Imagine if suddenly every grocery, pharmacy, petrol station, parking place, restaurant, bar etc. now would ask you for your ID AND would snap a picture and store in their database - you wouldn't be happy about it.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#84

Post by jdrek1 »

Muromec wrote: post #81
grey-area wrote: post #23

Digital ids are inevitable in my view, just as digital currency has become inescapable because it is more convenient and efficient, these ids will be issued and things like paper proofs of identity will fall away over time. Physical tokens like bank cards and driving licenses are neither necessary nor a good solution in a networked world. Our focus therefore should be controlling what governments can do with them - f…

I can't help but think people mean something else when they hear "digital ids" then what they are. Like I have a digital id from the government of the Netherlands that I use to log into their government systems to declare taxes or what not. I had an X509 certificate issued by Ukrainian government and have their app to do the same. It's bad somehow?

The problem is what follows. They will make it mandatory to use the electronic ID to do anything, resulting in total surveillance. And if you happen to land on their "bad" list (which eventually everyone will), you're locked out of life completely. No banking, no traveling, no communication with anyone, no buying food, nothing.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#85

Post by fc417fc802 »

klausa wrote: post #67
b112 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why they would bother with physical tokens nor would they be popular - things like passports are really quite expensive to manage and largely unecessary these days. OK. I'll bite. Why are they unnecessary? Passports have two things. They have information on them, which can be read by looking at them. And they have information on them in chip form, which can be scanned, and is also cryptographically signed…

This is not how the world already works. If CBP's systems go down, they will not process (foreign, they'll process US citizens still) arrivals [1], even with physical passports in front of them. I assume the EU ESS works the same. "If the internet goes down, your border checkpoint is down" is not some terrifying future we need to protect against, it's the reality of the world as you live in right now. [1]: I've had t…

TBF given that a temporary outage is abnormal it makes a certain amount of sense to default to shutting down. Whereas during an extended outage you can pick back up as long as the key parts of your system are capable of operating without the network.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#86

Post by broken-kebab »

jeroenhd wrote: post #59

It's not a trojan horse, it's spelled out in the decision, debates, and legal texts to be the explicit goal. The age verification requirement was picked both as a means to prove the technology is sound and as a simple starting point for a full digital ID solution. The EU already has some form of digital ID in fact, every government provides some kind of OIDC-like service tied to either smart cards or accounts that au…

>You can already do that in the real world.

This argument stays on the sand of inadequate analogy. The way that flaw is described in the story it allows industrialization of bypassing the feature. It's huge difference with the "real world".

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#87

Post by maccard »

pzo wrote: post #83
jeroenhd wrote: post #59

It's not a trojan horse, it's spelled out in the decision, debates, and legal texts to be the explicit goal. The age verification requirement was picked both as a means to prove the technology is sound and as a simple starting point for a full digital ID solution. The EU already has some form of digital ID in fact, every government provides some kind of OIDC-like service tied to either smart cards or accounts that au…

The difference you barely have to show you physical ID - mostly only when interacting with bank, signing document, government. I never got asked when buying alcohol and if asked at least I would only let to have a look instead of snapping a picture. Imagine if suddenly every grocery, pharmacy, petrol station, parking place, restaurant, bar etc. now would ask you for your ID AND would snap a picture and store in their…

If you want an example of how this will be abused by companies, https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/12/airport-shops-...

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#88

Post by rglullis »

pzo wrote: post #83
jeroenhd wrote: post #59

It's not a trojan horse, it's spelled out in the decision, debates, and legal texts to be the explicit goal. The age verification requirement was picked both as a means to prove the technology is sound and as a simple starting point for a full digital ID solution. The EU already has some form of digital ID in fact, every government provides some kind of OIDC-like service tied to either smart cards or accounts that au…

The difference you barely have to show you physical ID - mostly only when interacting with bank, signing document, government. I never got asked when buying alcohol and if asked at least I would only let to have a look instead of snapping a picture. Imagine if suddenly every grocery, pharmacy, petrol station, parking place, restaurant, bar etc. now would ask you for your ID AND would snap a picture and store in their…

Yeah, imagine if every convenience store had CCTV security filming everyone 24/7.

Oh, wait...

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#89

Post by LunaSea »

lodovic wrote: post #42
grey-area wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why they would bother with physical tokens nor would they be popular - things like passports are really quite expensive to manage and largely unecessary these days. An app or identity on people’s phone might be a good stopgap. However I suspect biometric methods of id verification will render carrying anything redundant long term. The databases for digital id already exist, they’re just not fully utilised…

I doubt everyone will still be carrying phones as we know them in a decade, so we might indeed be headed for a future where governments keep giant databases of biometric information. Works OK if you trust your government to handle that properly and not abuse it in the future. The real headache is crossing borders, where your details end up in the hands of a foreign state.

Biometrics are usernames at best not passwords.

Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs

#90

Post by pzo »

rglullis wrote: post #88
pzo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference you barely have to show you physical ID - mostly only when interacting with bank, signing document, government. I never got asked when buying alcohol and if asked at least I would only let to have a look instead of snapping a picture. Imagine if suddenly every grocery, pharmacy, petrol station, parking place, restaurant, bar etc. now would ask you for your ID AND would snap a picture and store in their…

Yeah, imagine if every convenience store had CCTV security filming everyone 24/7. Oh, wait...

they don't know necessary who are you and what are you buying. I don't think also for big shops with many customers that techonology and reliably do instance segmentation - this is not face id.
Post reply on HN