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America's Geothermal Breakthrough

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Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#81

Post by jeffbee »

Animats wrote: post #9
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #2

I worked on geothermal control systems a decade or so back. There are some less obvious applications for geothermal that reduce electric use (as opposed to generating electricity). The systems I worked on were for cooling larger structures like commercial greenhouses, gov installations and mansions. 64° degree water would be pumped up from 400' down, run thru a series of chillers (for a/c) and then returned undergrou…

Shallow geothermal works fine for heating. And you can use the ground as a heat sink. But if you want to generate power, you need to get down to where temperatures can boil water. That's deeper than most oil wells. Fervo Energy claims to have found 270C at 3350 meters well depth. That's progress.

Nope. To efficiently tap geothermal energy, you need to boil something but not necessarily water. Isopentane, for example, boils at 28º at standard pressure, so they pressurize the secondary loop to raise the boiling point close to whatever the primary loop temperature is.

The idea that geothermal only works well at steam temperatures is outdated 20th-century thinking.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#83

Post by LeFantome »

ButlerianJihad wrote: post #36
mskogly wrote: post #11

[flagged]

Yes. North America. United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement (formerly NAFTA) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Mexico%E... https://www.ghy.com/trade-compliance/guidance-on-us-energy-i... https://www.heritage.org/trade/report/analysis-the-united-st...

Now USMCA (if you are American) or CUSMA (if you are Canadian) or T-MEC (if you are Mexican).

Canadian United States Mexico Agreement.

It is up for review July 1st I believe.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#84

Post by zdragnar »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #28
wood_spirit wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the nordics it is common to have ground source heat pumps (brine in closed circuit pipe or bore hole) that are run backwards in summer to cool the house while actually assisting in storing heat back in the ground to extract in the winter. It’s a bit like regenerative breaking on electric cars.

There was a new in 1988 house in Champaign, Illinois, USA that used the same system, and i mention that because it was a normal modern house, and it's the only one i've heard of with that system. It seems so smart.

There's a pretty significant upfront cost in getting them drilled, and many homes need the vertical drilling if they don't have sufficient yard space for a horizontal system. It gets harder if you have your own septic drain field too, as that will complete for yard space.

The cost difference is pretty massive- 3-10x for a vertical system. If you live in a city or a suburb with tiny lots, that's your only option though.

Nat gas and central AC are way cheaper.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#85

Post by defrost »

ButlerianJihad wrote: post #36
mskogly wrote: post #11

[flagged]

Yes. North America. United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement (formerly NAFTA) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Mexico%E... https://www.ghy.com/trade-compliance/guidance-on-us-energy-i... https://www.heritage.org/trade/report/analysis-the-united-st...

Or, as you've presented, three of the twenty three independent states and territories of North America.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#86

Post by dmix »

LeFantome wrote: post #83
ButlerianJihad wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. North America. United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement (formerly NAFTA) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Mexico%E... https://www.ghy.com/trade-compliance/guidance-on-us-energy-i... https://www.heritage.org/trade/report/analysis-the-united-st...

Now USMCA (if you are American) or CUSMA (if you are Canadian) or T-MEC (if you are Mexican). Canadian United States Mexico Agreement. It is up for review July 1st I believe.

It expires in 2036

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#87

Post by emmelaich »

jeffbee wrote: post #81
Animats wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shallow geothermal works fine for heating. And you can use the ground as a heat sink. But if you want to generate power, you need to get down to where temperatures can boil water. That's deeper than most oil wells. Fervo Energy claims to have found 270C at 3350 meters well depth. That's progress.

Nope. To efficiently tap geothermal energy, you need to boil something but not necessarily water. Isopentane, for example, boils at 28º at standard pressure, so they pressurize the secondary loop to raise the boiling point close to whatever the primary loop temperature is. The idea that geothermal only works well at steam temperatures is outdated 20th-century thinking.

But the energy in boiling isopentane would be less right?

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#88

Post by sunshinesnacks »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #48
pedalpete wrote: post #47

According to google, this would be almost 30% of total US energy production (135gw-150gw) and nearly 5% of total US energy consumption. But what is the "breakthrough" if there is one? The article doesn't really suggest any breakthrough that is unlocking this potential energy? Or maybe I'm looking for a technological breakthrough where there isn't one.

4th paragraph of TFA: > Several companies are now building upon existing techniques for accessing geothermal resources by integrating enhanced geothermal systems (EGS) into operations. While conventional geothermal systems produce energy using hot water or steam, pumped from naturally occurring hydrothermal reservoirs trapped in rock formations underground, EGS use innovative drilling technologies, such as those used…

EGS has been around for at least 15 years. See AltaRock Energy as an example (I’m sure there are others). They started almost 20 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltaRock_Energy

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#89

Post by tptacek »

Animats wrote: post #8

Oh, Fervo Energy again. They're trying to IPO, hence the hype. Wikipedia's warning: This article reads like a press release or a news article and may be largely based on routine coverage. (February 2026) This article may have been created or edited in return for undisclosed payments, a violation of Wikipedia's terms of use. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point…

That's Wikipedia warning about the quality of the Wikipedia page, not about the company.

Re: America's Geothermal Breakthrough

#90

Post by jeffbee »

emmelaich wrote: post #87
jeffbee wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. To efficiently tap geothermal energy, you need to boil something but not necessarily water. Isopentane, for example, boils at 28º at standard pressure, so they pressurize the secondary loop to raise the boiling point close to whatever the primary loop temperature is. The idea that geothermal only works well at steam temperatures is outdated 20th-century thinking.

But the energy in boiling isopentane would be less right?

Yes, the efficiency is worse, but as is also the case for solar power you need to get used to not caring much about efficiency. It is nuclear energy where the primary side is provided free of charge. The Carnot efficiency is almost without relevance.
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