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Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

nature.com

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Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#81

Post by fermiNitambh »

barrenko wrote: post #58
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #38

After habitually consuming caffeine (not in coffee form) daily, usually multiple times a day, for more than a decade, a horrible mental health incident happened to me that forced me to stop it for a while. Afterwards I didn't resume the habit, and so I no longer have a tolerance. This has let me evaluate what caffeine does with fresh eyes, so to say, because I can now consume it occasionally while having many non-caf…

Coffee is a plant demon that created the western civilization as we know it today...

I like this worldview. Prior to coffee, Europe was in the grip of the beer dwarves. Coffee demons took over and invented nationalism, capitalism and Keynesian economics.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#82

Post by andor »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #68
fedeb95 wrote: post #55

thirty-one participants were moderate coffee-drinkers (CD, i.e., people that usually consume between 3 to 5 cups of coffee per day). 3-5 is moderate? To me, 3 is already high. Also, sample size is pretty low and they're all Irish.

I do 6-10 espresso cups per day, so 3-5 does sound very moderate.

It depends on how much caffeine is in your cup. Rather than measuring the size of a cup, I would go by the amount of coffee, as in the weight of the beans, used to brew it. The actual amount of caffeine is not as easy to measure, and even for the same kind of beans, there is natural variation.

For a traditional Italian espresso, about 7g of coffee beans are extracted. For a third-wave double espresso, it's usually 18g or more.

In my opinion, 10x7g is a lot. 2x12g is more than enough for me.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#83

Post by gabriel-uribe »

bayarearefugee wrote: post #77
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #38

After habitually consuming caffeine (not in coffee form) daily, usually multiple times a day, for more than a decade, a horrible mental health incident happened to me that forced me to stop it for a while. Afterwards I didn't resume the habit, and so I no longer have a tolerance. This has let me evaluate what caffeine does with fresh eyes, so to say, because I can now consume it occasionally while having many non-caf…

Quitting caffeine after decades of use was a bit of a mixed bag for me in the short term, but positive in the long term. Going caffeine-free made it much easier to lose weight as I have far less cravings for high carbs and sugar now, presumably this is related to the impulsivity impact talked about in the paper. Going caffeine-free also made me very depressed for a while with severe anhedonia, this lasted way longer…

I'm almost exactly 1 year coffee-free (not caffeine free, but significantly less because tea is much less addictive for me).

Also positive in the long-term for me. Fewer digestive issues, less spiky dopamine sensitive or impulsiveness and performance during the day, better memory. I wish it weren't so.

But damn was the 3-6 months of anhedonia awful. I still feel pangs of it.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#84

Post by baxtr »

oharapj wrote: post #72
iammjm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they though? Any data on that? Also, the highly caffeinated people might also be sleep deprived, which impacts memory and emotional regulation

Please delete this comment. It’s embarrassing

Maybe he forgot?

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#85

Post by orphea »

BatteryMountain wrote: post #60
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #38

After habitually consuming caffeine (not in coffee form) daily, usually multiple times a day, for more than a decade, a horrible mental health incident happened to me that forced me to stop it for a while. Afterwards I didn't resume the habit, and so I no longer have a tolerance. This has let me evaluate what caffeine does with fresh eyes, so to say, because I can now consume it occasionally while having many non-caf…

I've had the same experience. Caffeine is super addicting, the ritual & habits surrounding it is a potent pull. For myself, it makes me erratic, impulsive, more reactive and agitated. One cup a day puts me on edge, makes me sweat more, makes me more intolerant, makes everything feel too slow. It such a sneaky drug and it can really get under your skin without you realizing how much it changes you.

I don't have the same experience, and I drink one cup of coffee (270 ml) almost every day. No agitation, no impulsiveness. I can drink coffee in late evening (let's say 8 pm) and sleep well. I guess I'm trying to say that we should not project our own experience on others, everyone is different.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#86

Post by askvictor »

andor wrote: post #82
alexey-salmin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do 6-10 espresso cups per day, so 3-5 does sound very moderate.

It depends on how much caffeine is in your cup. Rather than measuring the size of a cup, I would go by the amount of coffee, as in the weight of the beans, used to brew it. The actual amount of caffeine is not as easy to measure, and even for the same kind of beans, there is natural variation. For a traditional Italian espresso, about 7g of coffee beans are extracted. For a third-wave double espresso, it's usually 18…

caffeine extraction is largely a function of time in contact with water. Espresso is quite quick brew, so has less caffeine than other brewing methods (yes, there are plenty of other factors)

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#87

Post by kristofferR »

fedeb95 wrote: post #55

thirty-one participants were moderate coffee-drinkers (CD, i.e., people that usually consume between 3 to 5 cups of coffee per day). 3-5 is moderate? To me, 3 is already high. Also, sample size is pretty low and they're all Irish.

This study is Irish, so I think they likely use 170ml cups? That means a normal mug of ~500ml is 3 cups.

Perhaps they even use US coffee cup size, which is 118ml?

Honestly, using an unit of measurement that varies from 118ml to 250ml in a scientific paper brings the whole paper into question.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#88

Post by opan »

sdevonoes wrote: post #48

I must be weird, but coffee (or caffeine) doesn’t really “wake me up” in the mornings and I could drink it in the night and still sleep well. Because of that I don’t drink coffee; I prefer tea

I find that the effects can be pretty subtle, and if I'm already tired there's usually no coming back. What I think has worked best for me is to re-up on caffeine a few hours before I think I'll be tired, or around when a previous dose is wearing off. Also, if trying to stay awake, food and entertainment are also quite important. If I hit a point where I'm hungry, cold, and tired, and going to the kitchen to eat sounds like a chore, it's usually too late for me. When the bed's closer, it's hard to resist.

I've also noticed that I have a sort of natural energy in the morning. I think of it as being similar to how a seed has enough energy in itself to sprout and then get sunlight. It's probably so I can make myself eat and whatnot. I don't really need caffeine to "wake up" as much as I need it to stay awake later in the day, and even if I do have a coffee with breakfast, I'll often get tired before the normal day is over.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#89

Post by Edd314159 »

andor wrote: post #82
alexey-salmin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do 6-10 espresso cups per day, so 3-5 does sound very moderate.

It depends on how much caffeine is in your cup. Rather than measuring the size of a cup, I would go by the amount of coffee, as in the weight of the beans, used to brew it. The actual amount of caffeine is not as easy to measure, and even for the same kind of beans, there is natural variation. For a traditional Italian espresso, about 7g of coffee beans are extracted. For a third-wave double espresso, it's usually 18…

There is no realistic scenario where, no matter your extractions or bean selections, 6-10 shots of espresso a day is not an enormous amount of caffeine

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#90

Post by yetihehe »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #38

After habitually consuming caffeine (not in coffee form) daily, usually multiple times a day, for more than a decade, a horrible mental health incident happened to me that forced me to stop it for a while. Afterwards I didn't resume the habit, and so I no longer have a tolerance. This has let me evaluate what caffeine does with fresh eyes, so to say, because I can now consume it occasionally while having many non-caf…

After habitually consuming coffee daily in large quantities for two decades, I had mental health incident, during which I drank twice the amount of coffee and it felt like water. After that incident I still drink previous amount of coffee, but feel much better, much more rested, on an upward trajectory and like I have finally managed to escape the swamp I dragged myself into over many years.

After reevaluating your comment and my experience I declare that coffee is not always a cause of mental health incidents, sometimes it might help people.

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