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Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

nytimes.com

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Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#81

Post by jeffbee »

themafia wrote: post #75
euleriancon wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative explanation is that cold places with long winters are depressing, and because they are depressing fewer people want to live there. Alaskan winters are hard regardless of how many friends you have.

If you take a chart of population density, and overlay the chart of suicide rate, you'll see an exceedingly strong correlation. It does not follow weather patterns. Utah has 3x the problem relative to California, for example.

Yeah if you go to CDC WISQARS you can do fatal injury reports filtered by intent (suicide) and aggregated by urban/non urban geography. These differences are not small, they vary by factors or orders of magnitude in every state. It's not the weather.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#82

Post by spwa4 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #31
nyanmatt wrote: post #27

I don’t see how. Have you ever tried calling one of these lines in a suicide emergency? Things I’ve learned in California: - an ambulance will not be dispatched unless you physically witness someone trying to kill themselves - otherwise, they send the police - the police arrive without training and severely escalate the situation - the person having an emergency will be taken into custody and stripped of rights until…

I have a loved one who used the 988 hotline several times. None of them resulted in police intervention. Our county has a mobile crisis team of social workers who show up and get you connected to services.

... services that use force against individuals. Never ever, ever tell a social worker of any kind that you think of suicide, or that anyone else does. ESPECIALLY not if you're young. Help, or social worker's kind of help, does not help. And getting rid of social workers ... I almost killed one before that happened.

All the lip service they make to that force is not the answer. It's lies, cheats and deception on their part, nothing more. Once on a forced youth services vacation I locked, with an entire group, a social services worker into a room. She became instantly educated why locking the rooms was a bad idea, why not even having a lock on the inside was an incredible mistake, and why youth workers ignoring screaming in the facility was an incredibly bad idea. All these people want is to be the big man (yes, including the 19 year old women who join), and you cannot explain it to them. After she eventually got out, we never saw her again, and the others were a LOT more flexible.

And that wasn't even close to the worst that happened.

These things is what social services calls "protection". They purposefully create situations where Gandhi would eventually beat up his own mother, and call it protection. Don't do this to people.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#83

Post by tzs »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #63
Alupis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> A national hotline that can handle anyone is clearly the right way The data suggest otherwise [1]. Which makes sense. “For LGBTQ youth, risk factors such as bullying, abuse, negative family treatment, as well as negative emotions caused by anti-LGBTQ legislation have also been identified” [2]. If you’re in a community that’s tolerating all of that, your trust in generic institutions will be low. > any more than Bla…

The law that created the hotline even specifically mentions those two groups, along with rural Americans:

> (a) SENSE OF CONGRESS.—It is the sense of Congress that—

> (1) youth who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or queer (referred to in this section as ‘‘LGBTQ’’) are more than 4 times more likely to contemplate suicide than their peers, with 1 in 5 LGBTQ youth and more than 1 in 3 transgender youth reporting attempting suicide;

> (2) American Indian and Alaska Natives have the highest rate of suicide of any racial or ethnic group in the United States with a suicide rate over 3.5 times higher than the racial or ethnic group with the lowest rate, with the suicide rate increasing, since 1999, by 139 percent for American Indian women and 71 percent for men;

> (3) between 2001 and 2015, the suicide death rate in rural counties in the United States was 17.32 per 100,000 individuals, which is significantly greater than the national average, and the data shows that between that same time period, suicide rates increased for all age groups across all counties in the United States, with the highest rates and the greatest increases being in more rural counties; and

> (4) the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration must be equipped to provide specialized resources to these and other high-risk populations.

Full text of the law is at https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/266...

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#84

Post by mystraline »

alistairSH wrote: post #73
mystraline wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So yeah, why not? Choosing to end thyself IS the penultimate "my body, my choice". We have immediate "no money, lost job, destitute" (insert temporary issue). And we have chronic, everpresent, or terminal problem. We could fix the first one, but socially we choose not to. Either way, we should have the right of bodily autonomy. I guess the american answer is, for a suicide help call, show up with pigs with guns, and…

The phrase "suicide by cop" didn't create itself out of thin air.

Well, thats usually relegated by someone who wants to die but is too scared to do it. So they find people who legally can, usually by waving an empty gun around.

But what I'm seeing is 60% of the people here in the USA are not functionally sustainable economically wise. And that is completely a fixable problem. But given how corrupted our government is, its likely not going to be fixed in the reasonable future (say, 20y).

Live in poverty, no medical, no vacation, scraping by every day on what amounts of hope? I can understand why people want out. HN people are in a massive bubble. Most of us are fine. Average folks? Nope. Rural? Nope. Inner city? Nope. Homeless? Obviously not. Underage LGBTQ people with hateful/christian families? One of the highest suicide rates.

Sure, I would absolutely rather help people through what seems to be insurmountable problems. Most of them aren't. But seriously, this country doesnt give a fuck. I'm pretty sure this country only cares about suicide at all is because it reduces lifetime tax revenue (for, primarily blowing up brown and middle eastern people).

Thankfully, 1FA is still in the USA, mostly. So sites like https://sanctionedsuicide.site, even if theyre indexed to hell and back by Google and Bing.

Id rather help people get past why they think suicide is the answer. But I also understand why someone is just tired and done.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#85

Post by ceejayoz »

spwa4 wrote: post #82
ceejayoz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a loved one who used the 988 hotline several times. None of them resulted in police intervention. Our county has a mobile crisis team of social workers who show up and get you connected to services.

... services that use force against individuals. Never ever, ever tell a social worker of any kind that you think of suicide, or that anyone else does. ESPECIALLY not if you're young. Help, or social worker's kind of help, does not help. And getting rid of social workers ... I almost killed one before that happened. All the lip service they make to that force is not the answer. It's lies, cheats and deception on thei…

Consider the possibility that both your experience and those you worked with are not universal. The experience our family had was night and day different from yours.

I suspect this varies enormously from country to country, state to state, county to county, and per provider.

edit: OP changed their post substantially, and I'm now not quite sure what it's asserting at all.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#86

Post by washadjeffmad »

keybored wrote: post #70
umpalumpaaa wrote: post #67

A while ago I was seriously sick + in a hospital (for a few months). The doctors told me that I won't be able to resume my regular job (software engineer). At the same time I was in a lot of pain – unable to sit, walk, stand. It was not really clear how it all would end. I got deeply depressed and just wanted to die. The pain was just too much - even with controlled pain medication in a hospital setup. I called the G…

I’m glad that it helped and that it worked for such a seemingly somatic issue. I wouldn’t have thought that.

That's understandable. I went through a period of chronic pain and, had it continued, I likely wouldn't be alive today.

The mechanisms protecting us from non-existence by millions of years of evolution can be eroded by pain. It's not something you realize you even have to lose until you've experienced it firsthand. I certainly never expected it, and it's hard for me to imagine what I'd intended while going through it.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#87

Post by cucumber3732842 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #17
bombcar wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to remember that the majority of gun deaths are suicides. It's also important to remember that any blocker between a potential suicide victim and the weapon of choice reduces rates greatly. A gun locked in a safe where the potential suicide knows the code - reduces rates.

the Israeli military did a study about ~15 years ago where they looked at soldier suicide rates after they had enacted a policy of leaving the weapons at base over the weekend and if I recall correctly it cut the rate of suicides by 40-50%.

I bet that has as much to do with where and when alcohol is consumed as it does guns.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#89

Post by cucumber3732842 »

shimman wrote: post #48
dmoy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... important by what metric? Active shootings in the US kill like 100 people a year (as of 2024 I guess: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/reports-and-publications... ) Suicides is more like 50,000/yr

Yeah when you redefine the term to be "active shooter" I guess, something tells me that the American public still doesn't want to die in a mass shooting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... It's a sick society when you have one for nearly every single day of the year. But hey this is the result of neoliberal economics so why should we get too upset at the societal rot when corporatists are…

The terminology was specifically to counter the slight of hand you just did.

Over time the definition of "mass shooting" kept getting watered down to include a lot of "normal criminals with normal criminal goals they are trying to further by killing" shootings by people who wanted the number to be bigger to mislead the public into thinking indiscriminately targeted, killing for the sake of killing type shootings perpetrated by people who are mentally ill are much more common than they are in order to push various policies.

So then the people concerned with studying the latter had to come up with a new term that only encompassed people going off the deep end and did not include normal crime hence "active shooting"

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#90

Post by cucumber3732842 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #68
ryandrake wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace the phrase "people with guns" with "institutional violence" because that's what the police are. When police are called to the scene, the intention of the caller is violence, not to help. If the intention was help, then actual helpers would be called instead.

> the intention of the caller is violence, not to help This is mostly nonsense. Most cases where wellness checks result in a tragic outcome did not stem from the caller having violent intentions. > If the intention was help, then actual helpers would be called instead I believe clinician-led wellness checks are more effective than police-led ones [1]. But it’s untrue that police-led interventions are unhelpful. Not e…

>This is mostly nonsense. Most cases where wellness checks result in a tragic outcome did not stem from the caller having violent intentions.

No, it's not. What's the point of the police? They bark orders that are backed by violence.

The caller doesn't "mean" to add violence to a situation in the same way my racist grandma doesn't "mean" to be racist simply through her choice of vocabulary.

This is completely tangential to suicide by cop. Even if the cops themselves smart enough not to escalate straight to a shootout they will apply increasing violence until you comply or die. It's literally their job.

The degree to which police led interventions are helpful is mostly a reflection of officers and departments understanding that they need to behave like EMTs on those calls rather than cops and the people who they are being called on being compliant.

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