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Humpback whales are forming super-groups

bbc.com

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Re: Humpback whales are forming super-groups

#81

Post by bmitc »

timschmidt wrote: post #48
kulahan wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be great news if the whale literally only required krill to survive, but complex megafauna have complex needs, so the ability of krill and other small creatures to evolve is largely irrelevant in a discussion regarding the ability of megafauna to survive. This is especially true if you read TFA and see that the whales already adapt to eat different things as necessary.

Humpbacks have a highly specialized feeding mechanism. They only prey on krill and small fish. The food chain really is sun -> algae -> krill (and sometimes small fish) -> humpback whale

That's just one view of the stack and isn't a systems view. Other things support and interact with those other things.

Re: Humpback whales are forming super-groups

#82

Post by [deleted] »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #75
vasco wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why put a number on it? Every number so far has been wrong. Can we agree on the negative impacts of humans on an environment conducive to humanity without putting obviously wrong timings on predictions? I bet your intention is to provoke urgency but to most people it just causes an eye roll because it's not true, whereas the underlying ideas are true.

Very much agree. It's a pretty common mistake to bundle real information with obviously wrong details and lose credibility. Especially in the eyes of people looking for a reason to discredit the argument.

[deleted]

Re: Humpback whales are forming super-groups

#83

Post by kjkjadksj »

cortesoft wrote: post #20
sidewndr46 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the current trajectory of whale populations, 'we' probably won't be seeing that. Maybe in many generations of humans.

Well, the population growth probably isn't linear, so maybe?

Imagine you killed off all of humanity save for a couple people in Muncie, IN. How long until the next Shakespeare or Einstein emerges? Better yet, a properly heterogeneous culture?

Re: Humpback whales are forming super-groups

#85

Post by CalRobert »

amelius wrote: post #71
CalRobert wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know how, but we choose not to. The same goes for most of our ecological problems, really.

If asked the question, most people would choose to, I believe.

They wouldn’t pay a nickel more for gas to save their own kid.

Re: Humpback whales are forming super-groups

#86

Post by timschmidt »

jounker wrote: post #67
timschmidt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humpbacks have a highly specialized feeding mechanism. They only prey on krill and small fish. The food chain really is sun -> algae -> krill (and sometimes small fish) -> humpback whale

In recent years we’ve learned that humpbacks are generalist feeders with a wide variety of feeding strategies adapted to different kinds of prey.

Humpbacks will switch between Krill (their staple in many regions) and small schooling fish (herring, sand lance, anchovies, etc.).

But they don’t eat large fish, squid regularly, or anything like seals - so they’re not “generalists” in the broad, anything-goes sense.

They’re still constrained by their baleen filter-feeding system, which limits them to tiny prey

Re: Humpback whales are forming super-groups

#87

Post by timschmidt »

bmitc wrote: post #81
timschmidt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humpbacks have a highly specialized feeding mechanism. They only prey on krill and small fish. The food chain really is sun -> algae -> krill (and sometimes small fish) -> humpback whale

That's just one view of the stack and isn't a systems view. Other things support and interact with those other things.

Algae are the bottom of the ocean food chain. Everything interacts with it. But algae's happy to grow in a bowl of water left in the sun.

Lots of things eat krill and small fish. They're near the bottom of the foodchain too. In addition to algae, krill are opportunistic omnivores who often consume detritus. But their primary diet is algae. Small fish tend to be pretty similar.

It's not that other things don't interact with algae or krill or small fish, it's that those groups are the foundation bedrock of the ocean ecology. And single celled organisms like algae are tough as nails in aggregate. Couldn't kill them all if we tried. Pool owners will be familiar with the struggle.

Re: Humpback whales are forming super-groups

#89

Post by tbrownaw »

vasco wrote: post #60
mulnz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warming will kill off most of the systems these animals depend on within 30 years.

Why put a number on it? Every number so far has been wrong. Can we agree on the negative impacts of humans on an environment conducive to humanity without putting obviously wrong timings on predictions? I bet your intention is to provoke urgency but to most people it just causes an eye roll because it's not true, whereas the underlying ideas are true.

Weakening predictions until they become unfalsifiable seems like an odd approach to being taken seriously.
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