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A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

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Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#81

Post by LeCompteSftware »

olalonde wrote: post #64
BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #14

Probably the contrarian take, but an informed one. Near death experiences are probably the best way we have to assess the nature of reality. Now, it's almost impossible to reach people who aren't ready with any arguments, but I'll outline some possible steps for anyone who's on the verge. - Go to youtube, type in NDE and listen to a few - Try to come up with a "rational" explanation (hallucinations, the brain dumping…

> the brain dumping DMT Why do you exclude this hypothesis? It's well known that some drugs such as DMT do cause very similar hallucinations among people, even across cultures (as is the case with NDE).

Yeah I didn't want to burst anyone's spiritual bubble earlier, but I had a very similar experience one time when I smoked salvia divinorum: there was an eerie and overwhelming purple light, sort of like a "fluorescent" UV bulb, and the Ministers of The Universe pulled my life history in front of me, something something ALL OF SPACE AND TIME WAS-

I wasn't speaking to God. I was high on salvia. And I'm quite certain A.J. Ayer was high on oxygen deprivation.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#82

Post by bryanrasmussen »

BobbyTables2 wrote: post #66
ericmcer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never remotely believed this because I don't even believe in a "me" really. One hard hit in the head can literally change your personality entirely, then you have alzheimers and all the other degenerative brain diseases that will erase "you". Even if you avoid all that "you" will be wildly different every 15-20 years. Christianity gets through this by saying you will return to your prime. That just seems kind of ch…

I wonder if there even is such a thing as “eternal consciousness” the way people assume. It’s rare for me to remember -aspects of my daily life in dreams. I would think being dead would be a significant hinderance.

since I have dreams in which I am not in the dream https://medium.com/luminasticity/the-i-g-dream-log-5c3e5de92... it would actually be weird if I remembered aspects of my daily life in those dreams.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#83

Post by zzrrt »

ericmcer wrote: post #62
BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #14

Probably the contrarian take, but an informed one. Near death experiences are probably the best way we have to assess the nature of reality. Now, it's almost impossible to reach people who aren't ready with any arguments, but I'll outline some possible steps for anyone who's on the verge. - Go to youtube, type in NDE and listen to a few - Try to come up with a "rational" explanation (hallucinations, the brain dumping…

I never remotely believed this because I don't even believe in a "me" really. One hard hit in the head can literally change your personality entirely, then you have alzheimers and all the other degenerative brain diseases that will erase "you". Even if you avoid all that "you" will be wildly different every 15-20 years. Christianity gets through this by saying you will return to your prime. That just seems kind of ch…

I think Christian resurrection at prime usually means having the body of a 25-year old, not the mind. Maybe they'd say the physical brain can corrupt the eternal consciousness's expression while in this life, but it does still raise questions like how will you even recognize the eternal "you" when you've been trapped in a corruptible brain for all that you can remember, and what is the eternal part's worth if it can be corrupted by the brain. (Perhaps Mormonism addresses some of this, saying you lived as "you" unembodied before birth, but are not able to remember for now.)

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#84

Post by mellosouls »

oxag3n wrote: post #76

Being familiar with Ayer from his Epistemology works, this writeup was unexpected. How could an empiricist write "My recent experiences have slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death, which is due fairly soon, will be the end of me". It also directly contradicted his stance about metaphycal claims.

Clearly he wrote it as an intellectually honest response to something he experienced, which is the very least expected of an empiricist and therefore consistent with the practice; implied contradictions are opportunities for further reflection and investigation, certainly not reasons to immediately reject the evidence.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#85

Post by stavros »

anonymousiam wrote: post #74

I've told only a few people about my near death experience, and most of them were polite, but obviously didn't believe a word I was saying. To be honest, I wouldn't believe it either if I had not experienced it myself. I did not "see" anything other than a bright light, but I was overcome with an incredible feeling that I was in the presence of, and communicating with somebody who was conveying a message of absolute…

I don't know, this sounds like your subjective experience, I have no reason to disbelieve it. If you had said that your experience showed you the future, and X Y and Z were going to happen, then I might not believe that, but why wouldn't I believe you experienced what you say you did? Why would you lie?

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#86

Post by rhyperior »

bobbyswiss wrote: post #65
LocalH wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objective reality exists, but nobody can ever perceive it, at least not while they're perceiving things through the filter of their body

What's realer than reality as it's directly experienced?

The raw electromagnetic emissions of uncountable atoms jostling through space and time.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#87

Post by I011010011 »

BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #14

Probably the contrarian take, but an informed one. Near death experiences are probably the best way we have to assess the nature of reality. Now, it's almost impossible to reach people who aren't ready with any arguments, but I'll outline some possible steps for anyone who's on the verge. - Go to youtube, type in NDE and listen to a few - Try to come up with a "rational" explanation (hallucinations, the brain dumping…

100% agree with BoardsOfCanada.

Note: Atheism, agnosticism are all religions ( or religious thinking disguised as reasoning ); no less fanatic than the ones their adherents so fervently ridicule.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#88

Post by hackthemack »

anonymousiam wrote: post #74

I've told only a few people about my near death experience, and most of them were polite, but obviously didn't believe a word I was saying. To be honest, I wouldn't believe it either if I had not experienced it myself. I did not "see" anything other than a bright light, but I was overcome with an incredible feeling that I was in the presence of, and communicating with somebody who was conveying a message of absolute…

My memory is a bit hazy, but I thought what you are describing is very common with people who flatline and come back? I have vague memories that a new anesthetic drug was developed and used on soldiers undergoing surgery in the Vietnam war, and there was something about it that caused the same kind of reaction in those who were put under. Again, my memory is very hazy on the subject. I should go do some research and update this comment (and I just might).

EDIT I did a little searching. I think it might have been an old report about Ketamine before it became more wide known. Apparently it was used during the Vietnam War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine#Near-death_experience

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#89

Post by emmelaich »

Swizec wrote: post #33
BoardsOfCanada wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we agree but one point: There are tens of thousands of NDEs happening under monitored conditions (operating tables) when we know for a fact that the brain is out of oxygen and energy according to any know physical (not to mention evolutionary) mechanism, and that has to be explained.

> NDEs happening under monitored conditions (operating tables) I had general anesthesia 10 days ago. There was no NDE, felt like they flicked an off switch then turned me back on a few hours later. They wheeled me from the prep room towards the OR, opened the big door, and then I was in a different room waking up from anesthesia. That’s it.

Do you frequently experience and remember dreams?

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#90

Post by marcus_holmes »

zzrrt wrote: post #83
ericmcer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never remotely believed this because I don't even believe in a "me" really. One hard hit in the head can literally change your personality entirely, then you have alzheimers and all the other degenerative brain diseases that will erase "you". Even if you avoid all that "you" will be wildly different every 15-20 years. Christianity gets through this by saying you will return to your prime. That just seems kind of ch…

I think Christian resurrection at prime usually means having the body of a 25-year old, not the mind. Maybe they'd say the physical brain can corrupt the eternal consciousness's expression while in this life, but it does still raise questions like how will you even recognize the eternal "you" when you've been trapped in a corruptible brain for all that you can remember, and what is the eternal part's worth if it can…

Also well-known now is that our feelings are affected by things like our gut biome. Do all our little passengers resurrect with us?
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