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Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

bbc.com

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Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#81

Post by incr_me »

periodjet wrote: post #78
wat10000 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a criticism, but non-threatening seems like a really good thing.

Very interested to hear why you believe “non-threatening” to be a desirable property of the average male. Do you also believe this to be a desirable property for the average female? i.e. nobody threatens anyone else?

Why are you scare-quoting your own words and supposing it is only your interlocutor who is treating them abstractly? Just tell us what you mean. What do you mean by non-threatening? What domains?

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#82

Post by gosub100 »

rybosome wrote: post #38
andy99 wrote: post #16

Saw this earlier today, I think it’s very flawed and ideological, unfortunately other posts mentioning this got flagged. First there’s the idea that “nurturing” is somehow what kids need and better for them automatically, that whatever a stereotypical man does with kids is bad for them, and we need to be rewired by pheromones or whatever to be more sensitive. And as a corollary the idea that a high-T man somehow is a…

What exactly are you proposing that kids need other than nurturing?

I didn't read the article but I'll stand in for the person you replied to and make my best guess at what he meant:

I think he's saying that a manly man might not be soft and cuddly with a small child like a traditional mother would. But that is not necessarily detrimental. For instance, a guy might not want to coo and caw, or change the pitch of his voice, or giggle, things that some men find weak. But (perhaps - I don't know anything about children) the child may still respond positively to a male who used his normal voice and interacted with them however he naturally felt.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#83

Post by farfatched »

is_true wrote: post #74
bananaboy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t read news stories about something terrible that happened to a child since having kids.

Neither do I and I don't have kids

I believe OP is discussing what changed upon having kids, not "things that you can only do if you are a parent".

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#84

Post by gosub100 »

the_gipsy wrote: post #48
pfannkuchen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

But for women it's natural? How convenient

It's amazing coincidence how the two genders have biological features that together support life. You should check it out sometime.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#85

Post by farfatched »

roody15 wrote: post #3

As a father of 3 daughters now approaching 50 with my oldest now 24 … I will say that I believe some of this is true. Perhaps it is just the life altering effect of raising children or maybe is biological as well. You can definitely pickup on whether another male is a father or not.

> Perhaps it is just the life altering effect of raising children or maybe is biological as well.

If not biological, where else would this effect manifest?

Arguably it could be things like "become parent -> become poor -> become stressed".

But suppose we say they're rich, and so they don't get stressed via that path. So maybe we can't say that parenting causes stress. (Okay, it absolutely does but bare with me.)

Suppose they're really rich, and they pay for night nannies, then suddenly you're a parent and not even tired. So now we can't say parenting causes tiredness.

Perhaps there are some things that "intrinsically" switch on in the father's brain, detached from the rest of the world?

If so, are we believe that a one-night stand, that leads to a baby, unbeknownst to the father, results in biological changes 9 months later?

My point is, the effects are all predictably biological adaptation in response to the environment, in the same way that if I go to the gym, I will become fitter. The article presents it as unexpected or mystical. What else are they expecting happens with big life changes?

(Sorry if it sounds like I'm grouchy, I am tired and my child is not napping when he should be.)

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#86

Post by dlenski »

strix_varius wrote: post #69
jvanderbot wrote: post #50

Not to the direct thesis of the article, but I want to share one absolute 180 I had after having kids. Before kiddos I took the apriori belief that it would kinda suck. The belief was unassailable because I thought, evolutionarily, if it was fun to have kids it wouldn't be fun to make them - otherwise we'd endure unfun "making" because we know the having would be fun. I know now how stupid that was on many levels. Ju…

I also have been surprised by how fun fatherhood is. When kids are days, weeks, months old, they're constantly experiencing new things. That's the first tree she ever saw! It's amazing to experience the world through them. When they're a couple years old, you see them learning and connecting and developing a unique personality. I love it when my two year old picks up on things that I missed, or teaches me something.…

> I also have been surprised by how fun fatherhood is.

Same here. My son is approaching two, and he's a blast. He can be tiring, he can be a big ol’ mess, but he's never boring.

He's healthy and he eats well and he's a good sleeper, so he doesn't give us much to worry about. He charms everyone he meets, he explores everything, and every day is just a fireworks show of new delights and discoveries. I go on a business trip for 2-3 days and I come back to him doing new things.

Looking forward to the second kiddo!

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#87

Post by brigandish »

> "It's an urgent societal priority that we shore up dads' opportunity to build those connections," says Saxbe.

I note that changing the presumption in family law that the mother is the better care giver, thus making it incredibly hard for fathers to win custody of their children, is not listed as one of them.

Weird that.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#88

Post by dlenski »

roody15 wrote: post #3

As a father of 3 daughters now approaching 50 with my oldest now 24 … I will say that I believe some of this is true. Perhaps it is just the life altering effect of raising children or maybe is biological as well. You can definitely pickup on whether another male is a father or not.

> You can definitely pickup on whether another male is a father or not.

Hah, yep. There's a quality of patience and looking out for small children that nearly 100% of other dads I meet have, but probably only ~30% of men without kids.

And maybe even less than that, since the ones who are willing to hang out with me in my fatherly state are a self-selecting bunch.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#89

Post by brigandish »

rybosome wrote: post #38
andy99 wrote: post #16

Saw this earlier today, I think it’s very flawed and ideological, unfortunately other posts mentioning this got flagged. First there’s the idea that “nurturing” is somehow what kids need and better for them automatically, that whatever a stereotypical man does with kids is bad for them, and we need to be rewired by pheromones or whatever to be more sensitive. And as a corollary the idea that a high-T man somehow is a…

What exactly are you proposing that kids need other than nurturing?

The dilemma was nurturing by a hormonally-adapted male v. a “stereotypical” male, not nurturing v. non-nurturing.

Re: Dad brains: How fatherhood rewires the male mind

#90

Post by theshackleford »

roody15 wrote: post #3

As a father of 3 daughters now approaching 50 with my oldest now 24 … I will say that I believe some of this is true. Perhaps it is just the life altering effect of raising children or maybe is biological as well. You can definitely pickup on whether another male is a father or not.

> You can definitely pickup on whether another male is a father or not.

Fathers constantly think I also am a father when in shared spaces with them.

“So how old is your daughter?”

> niece

“Oh I’m sorry”

They always apologise, like I’d be offended.

I think they confuse me for the dad because we look so alike, but it’s because me and my sister are almost clones, and my niece is just a clone of my sister :)

I can’t have kids of my own, so I put a lot of time in with my niece.

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