Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ban the sale of precise geolocation

lawfaremedia.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 205 posts

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#81

Post by kube-system »

pwg wrote: post #39
ch4s3 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just bury literally anything in an EULA. There's a fair amount of case law establishing that EULAs clauses that are surprising or illegal aren't enforceable.

That fact does not change the point of the individual to which you replied. Regardless of whether the clauses in the EULA are 100% legal, some mixture or 100% illegal, the entire EULA is a "one sided rule-book dictated completely by one side". You, the person held to the EULA's rules, do not get to negotiate on the individual points. You simply have a "take it or go away" set of options.

You're talking about contracts of adhesion and they are overwhelmingly common for B2C agreements. Most red-lining of contracts only happens in high-value B2B transactions where the sums of money involved are enough that it makes sense to bring lawyers into the loop.

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#82

Post by kube-system »

rolph wrote: post #76
pwg wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That fact does not change the point of the individual to which you replied. Regardless of whether the clauses in the EULA are 100% legal, some mixture or 100% illegal, the entire EULA is a "one sided rule-book dictated completely by one side". You, the person held to the EULA's rules, do not get to negotiate on the individual points. You simply have a "take it or go away" set of options.

when you already pay for the device and a contract, then surprise now that you have skin and flesh in the game, you HAVE TO agree to this EULA or your property is a brick and we keep your money. that is defined as extortion, but labled as onboarding.

Courts do look poorly upon this -- to have a valid contract of adhesion there is some degree of advanced notice required and ability to reject it.

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#83

Post by quickthrowman »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #69
nickburns wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and location is critical for myriad purposes. It's not though. Critical for myriad elective purposes? Sure.

Only if you consider the entire concept of logistics in civilization as "elective".

How does tracking the movements of individual humans aid shipping and logistics, other than providing traffic data to freight companies? How did we manage to have global supply chains prior to GPS being invented?

Edit: I assume I am missing a crucial part of logistics that you’re familiar with, genuinely curious.

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#84

Post by xphos »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #69
nickburns wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and location is critical for myriad purposes. It's not though. Critical for myriad elective purposes? Sure.

Only if you consider the entire concept of logistics in civilization as "elective".

Seems hyperbolic we had logistics that functioned extremely well before we had customer location data for sale on 3rd party sites.

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#85

Post by reorder9695 »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #12

Smartphones, mobile apps, mobile networks, and WiFi stopped being your friends around 2015-2016. Now it's just a matter of how much data can be harvested from device sensors in real time until reaching a pain point which doesn't exist.

If anyone's interested in this the book "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" is rather revealing of the sheer scale of this.

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#86

Post by gruez »

linkjuice4all wrote: post #43

Let’s just stretch copyright to cover movement/location as a protected creative expression. It’s somewhat ridiculous but we’ve already established case law and technology for handling/mishandling protected assets.

Then they add a clause to the ToS with "you grant us and our affiliates a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable and transferable license to your location..."

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#88

Post by nickburns »

rolph wrote: post #75
microtonal wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I feel like this is where iOS and Android are failing us. Why is every app allowed to embed a bunch of trackers? Only blocking cross-app tracking on user request as iOS does is not enough (and data of different apps/websites can be correlated externally).

im not sure about allowed. perhaps required may be closer. why would someone include tech that makes people think twice about using the app, unless it is required if you want to "sell" in a particular venue. if your developing geolocation based apps, location tracking is a core function. a calender, absolutely does not require location tracking beyond what side of the prime meridian are you on.

> if your developing geolocation based apps, location tracking is a core function.

But the subsequent sale of that data is not—is the discussion here.

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#89

Post by Cider9986 »

dminor wrote: post #52
Eextra953 wrote: post #23

Does anyone know of any groups that are organizing and lobbying to get things like this into law? I know about the EFF but they seem to be more focused on documenting and reporting instead of lobbying and getting things passed.

Senator Wyden has been pretty focused on it. I think it's going to take some changes in Congress before it happens though.

Massie and McGovern in the house as well.

Re: Ban the sale of precise geolocation

#90

Post by Cider9986 »

Eextra953 wrote: post #23

Does anyone know of any groups that are organizing and lobbying to get things like this into law? I know about the EFF but they seem to be more focused on documenting and reporting instead of lobbying and getting things passed.

Restore the fourth, Brennan Center, EPIC, Freedom of the press foundation.
Post reply on HN