Live data from Hacker News

Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

bbc.com

81–90 of 126 posts

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#81
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would do my best to defend my country if it became necessary I still don't understand this in my 40s and after serving in military (conscription) - why would you defend any country? I can't imagine scenario when I am defending any country just because some other management wanna take over, I mean, what's the point risking your life for having different politicians maybe speaking different language. If you fight p…

You do not defend "the country". You defend yourself, your family, your relatives and your friends. You are not strong enough to defend these by yourself, so you can do this only by joining the army of the country in such cases. It would be great if these kinds of actions would have become unnecessary in the modern society, but wars are still started by despicable humans like Putin, Trump and their associates, and th…

still fail to see how would fighting in organized army help my family instead of staying home, taking care of them and protect them from whoever wants to attack them directly

my family is not some dumb country, I have no allegiance to any country, heck I dont even live in country where I was born, but even if I was I cant imagine fighting whoever just to please local politicians

you are talking about some politicians wars, if people ignored politicians and everyone minded their own family there would be nobody to fight against

so once again, unless someone attacking plans to do genocide on us (like Israel vs Palestine), I dont see point in fighting (like Ukrainians should do with Russians, especially since they are basically brothers sharing same language, same recent past and it was really just about change of management)

Russia occupied my country for decades, people lived their lives, it was certainly better than if they died fighting them

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#82
post #78
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Refuse to fight. How would that change any of the stuff you lament? Even the worst imaginable invasion would change little for the elites but a lot more for everybody else.

Invasions have historically destroyed elites that haven't or can't flee. Which means business/scientific/... elites that see things coming far enough out are fine, or get out with a large loss. And yes, I'm sure there's the occasional one that's really smart that gets out with a small profit, but I'm sure a large loss is the more normal experience. Political elites, which is the large majority: people who are rich be…

[dead]

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#83
post #11

We are told that we are in a state of preparing for war. When we will start restricting luxury items, unnecessary private jet travel, energy waste in crypto-currencies, etc.? Because it seems that for being so obsessed to be prepared for war the only ones affected are the working class. The rich are just wasting resources away like if there was no tomorrow. I just see austerity 2.0 to cut citizens rights, cut service…

> I am all for Europe being prepared for war. That is a necessity. Why? Name one scenario where EU needs a bigger army and masses of barely-trained conscripts. If you say "Ukraine loses", why not spend all effort on helping Ukraine instead? > So, I am all for better health care, better education, less dependency on foreign gas and oil, better funding for goverment programs ... You do realize that preparing for war is…

> If you say "Ukraine loses", why not spend all the effort into helping Ukraine instead?

It can't be allowed to cost any real amount of money. In case you're about to say that's a contradiction with Ukraine support: 96% of all EU support to Ukraine is a loan that has to be repaid (and the "90 billion" package will be that, as well). If Ukraine wins, the current tally is that 15% of all Ukrainian tax will go to, well, effectively Germany. Still better than living under Putin, I get it, but ...

As for Germany's own wars: the German state sees Germans as both expendable and cheap. As you point out, these wars are pretty much planned in at the moment.

Oh and making these weapons, whether that means nukes or the other weapon that has worked really well in Ukraine (killbots), is going to be massively unpopular. (What are these killbots? Think the terminator T-1-8, except with realistic tires that will actually work and only one gun [1], or in the air [2]) Especially once AI is built into them.

Why? Every soldier, every person, that sees those drones is going to realize exactly what the German state wants of them: the areal ones are suicide drones: the German military will use the Zap Brannigan technique. After all, 1 German corpse = 1 disabled drone. Or get shredded to pieces by an AI machine gun that never misses in hopes that your corpse ties up it's tires afterwards. Odds are not good, so there will need to be a lot of you doing that.

I'm sure they'll give you a gun and be very happy if you disable a drone with a shot instead of your corpse, but the only guns that kind of work are shotgun net-launchers, which we all know right now: the military will never approve.

Don't worry, I'm sure the higher ups will get medals. Not for actually going on the frontlines.

Oh and the news from the frontline: those drones themselves are pretty good against bullets. Even hitting them does not often disable them. And hitting them is very hard to begin with.

Oh and, of course, it's not "the state" demanding this, it's the current German population not wanting to give up, well anything, to improve the future. By the way: the only thing worth discussing to be (partially) given up, really, is social security (41% of expenditures). The next 4 biggest costs are healthcare (16%), government jobs (17%), transportation (12%) and (least important) education (9%).

So it boils down to the same thing it always boils down to: the population must work more. In the sense that a decent chunk of Germans who either don't work, or work in government, must get themselves private sector jobs.

Alternatives? Well ... I have someone here: Wait! Comrade! Just say No! We'll just eat the rich instead! As for your question which party put Putin in power ... we don't talk about that. How rich is Putin? We don't talk about that either. Aren't most of the German rich "clients" of the state even now? And won't state control make that worse? I said: We DO NOT talk about that! Eat the rich! And don't build defenses at all! That's the solution.

[1] https://gdb.rferl.org/01000000-0aff-0242-3688-08dc5fafb30c_w...

[2] https://www.twz.com/news-features/inside-ukraines-fiber-opti...

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#84
post #18
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rules that are not enforced are bad as they create space for arbitrariness and corruption. It was a mistake by gov't, opposition & media that this wasn't spotted at the time the law was revised. The most surprising thing is that the ministry didn't figure this out itself. You'd expect the people drafting laws to consider such things. Thus, it's an indicator of ministerial sloppiness. Not a nothingburger.

It may not be sloppiness. Consider the official statement as shared in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=47789061 . The ministry of defense will issue an 'exception' that generally applies. Presumably, revoking this exception is straightforward and much easier than passing a new law.

If it wasn't sloppiness they would have issued the directive on January 1.

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#85
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am all for Europe being prepared for war. That is a necessity. Why? Name one scenario where EU needs a bigger army and masses of barely-trained conscripts. If you say "Ukraine loses", why not spend all effort on helping Ukraine instead? > So, I am all for better health care, better education, less dependency on foreign gas and oil, better funding for goverment programs ... You do realize that preparing for war is…

> If you say "Ukraine loses", why not spend all the effort into helping Ukraine instead? It can't be allowed to cost any real amount of money. In case you're about to say that's a contradiction with Ukraine support: 96% of all EU support to Ukraine is a loan that has to be repaid (and the "90 billion" package will be that, as well). If Ukraine wins, the current tally is that 15% of all Ukrainian tax will go to, well,…

> 96% of all EU support to Ukraine is a loan that has to be repaid (and the "90 billion" package will be that, as well). If Ukraine wins, the current tally is that 15% of all Ukrainian tax will go to, well, effectively Germany.

EU expects to use Russia's frozen assets as collateral/reparations for repayment when Russia gives up/Ukraine wins. Everybody knows that Ukraine cannot repay themselves.

> whether that means nukes or the other weapon that has worked really well in Ukraine (killbots), is going to be massively unpopular.

This thinking dominates the current discourse and it is shockingly stupid. Making nukes and drones is bad and unpopular, alright.

So instead we "prepare for war" and "get ready for hard times" because it sounds so brave, so heroic and abstract. Politicians are suddenly allowed to spend staggering amounts of money on defense companies - people love it - and nobody wants to ask what exactly is the scenario we are preparing for.

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#86

[flagged]

That's, like, your obsession, not their's.

I don't care. Until being 18 years old I had had no opinion or even an idea that there exist a commission waiting to see my genitals. It's when you refuse then they become obsessed to enforce and conduct the examination.

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#88

[flagged]

It used to be that way, and probably will be that way again. I know of a few of people who got an early testicular cancer diagnosis that way. So it seems that there is a medical use for it.

Military medical exam is not for medical diagnosis! They don't care, they're there to enforce. It's worth the same as a dude pissing into urinal next to you and saying "nice balls mate". For official medical diagnosis you have to go through the procedures within healthcare system in your country.

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whats the deal here with the genitals? normal part of life, and having someone check if theres nothing weird/curious in a full body health check doesn't sound unreasonable. was okay for me too. and girls do get their private parts inspected deeper every year at the female health docs than once in a lifetime ball touching from some drafter, different level, just accept it

Don't be ridiculous. You really don't see a difference between someone choosing to see a doctor for their own benefit and the state forcing someone to be subjected to an examination for the state's benefit? Nobody should accept gender discrimination or being touched without consent.

How far do you take that? One medical condition that has been considered militarily relevant is flat feet. If the state can draft people, can they make you show them your feet? If you can't avoid the draft but can avoid the medical exam, isn't that a way of avoiding the draft?

Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be ridiculous. You really don't see a difference between someone choosing to see a doctor for their own benefit and the state forcing someone to be subjected to an examination for the state's benefit? Nobody should accept gender discrimination or being touched without consent.

How far do you take that? One medical condition that has been considered militarily relevant is flat feet. If the state can draft people, can they make you show them your feet? If you can't avoid the draft but can avoid the medical exam, isn't that a way of avoiding the draft?

> can they make you show them your feet?

I see a subtle difference between being barefoot and showing cock and balls to half dozen strangers. I know of at least one American president who avoided being drafted because of his "feet situation".

Post reply on HN