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Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

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Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#81
post #60

I don't understand why it is a crime under current US law. Prediction markets can only do sports gambling (the vast majority of their volume) because they self-certify under the CFTC. The CFTC doesn't have the same standards of "insider trading" as the stock market, because insider trading is the entire point of business at the CFTC! If you're trading, like, oil futures or wheat futures or whatever, you are likely do…

> Prediction markets can only do sports gambling (the vast majority of their volume) because they self-certify under the CFTC

Sports betting is still illegal in 11 states. They can only do what they’re doing because of legislation and enforcement lag.

> The CFTC doesn't have the same standards of "insider trading" as the stock market, because insider trading is the entire point of business at the CFTC!

True to some extent, but it’s still illegal to use non-public information gained from your firm to trade on personal accounts.

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#82
post #24

> “If you commit insider trading on Kalshi, that can and will at some point be a federal crime. It is a federal crime,” Am I misunderstanding? It seems like two different statements he always conflates. If it becomes a federal crime at some point, it will become illegal from that point — you can't prosecute people for acts committed before they were crimes. The only way that this could be a federal crime right now is…

It’s a federal crime once someone gets convicted for it. Without any precedent it will be up to the first case to lay out how existing law applies to new phenomena that may or may not be covered, depending on what a judge thinks of the arguments.

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#83
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you buy the idea that Kalshi is a prediction market whose mechanism is gambling but whose product is accurate predictions, you don't have to buy the idea that insider trading is a good thing. Yes, in the rare occasion there exists someone with (a) insider information (b) confidence their actions won't impact their insider position and (c) access to capital - then you get extremely accurate predictions. In eve…

If people with more information profit at the expense of people with less information, isn't that exactly how things are supposed to work? If you're approaching a market with hard facts, detailed comparisons and solid evidence; while I'm trading in the same market based on vibes and intuition, surely it's expected that your returns would be better, and mine worse?

If you’re betting with a friend that they won’t have chicken for dinner, what’s to stop them from having chicken for dinner? What if you bet with a complete stranger who also took the reverse of that bet from your friend?

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#84
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you buy the idea that Kalshi is a prediction market whose mechanism is gambling but whose product is accurate predictions, you don't have to buy the idea that insider trading is a good thing. Yes, in the rare occasion there exists someone with (a) insider information (b) confidence their actions won't impact their insider position and (c) access to capital - then you get extremely accurate predictions. In eve…

If people with more information profit at the expense of people with less information, isn't that exactly how things are supposed to work? If you're approaching a market with hard facts, detailed comparisons and solid evidence; while I'm trading in the same market based on vibes and intuition, surely it's expected that your returns would be better, and mine worse?

Short answer, no. If you're betting on an outcome that can be controlled by an individual or small group, the incentive is for them to game the system by doing the OPPOSITE of what the prediction is so as to make the most money.

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A reasonable opposition party would declare the pardons invalid. Is that a valid interpretation of pardon power, does that undermine the legitimacy of our laws? No, in the USA the pardon power belongs to the President. Only a constitutional amendment could invalidate pardons.

As we are finding out in real time, the President has the power to try to do a million things, legal or illegal, constitutional or unconstitutional, and then whichever ones don't get pushback defacto become actual powers. Throw something at the wall, if it sticks, then it's a Presidential Power. If it doesn't, there's no consequences. Just shrug and throw something else at the wall.

The President's pardon power is enumerated in the Constitution and has been litigated extensively.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S2-C1-3...

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#86
post #24

> “If you commit insider trading on Kalshi, that can and will at some point be a federal crime. It is a federal crime,” Am I misunderstanding? It seems like two different statements he always conflates. If it becomes a federal crime at some point, it will become illegal from that point — you can't prosecute people for acts committed before they were crimes. The only way that this could be a federal crime right now is…

Schrodinger's felony

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#87
post #49
post #36

This issue reveals the gap between the prediction market premise and what these things actually are, which is: unregulated prop gambling venues. If things like Kalshi and Polymarket are prediction markets, then, at least as far as the intrinsic concerns of the market itself are concerned, insider trading is a good thing; literally part of the point. If they are instead how they function today, then insider trading is…

Even if you buy the idea that Kalshi is a prediction market whose mechanism is gambling but whose product is accurate predictions, you don't have to buy the idea that insider trading is a good thing. Yes, in the rare occasion there exists someone with (a) insider information (b) confidence their actions won't impact their insider position and (c) access to capital - then you get extremely accurate predictions. In eve…

You can see all across the responses here the encoded premise that the point of a prediction market is to enable people to profit from making accurate predictions. No. The point is for the price to be accurate; for the market to make an accurate prediction. That someone with a P1 prediction can roll over people with less confidence is a feature.

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#88
post #61
post #36

This issue reveals the gap between the prediction market premise and what these things actually are, which is: unregulated prop gambling venues. If things like Kalshi and Polymarket are prediction markets, then, at least as far as the intrinsic concerns of the market itself are concerned, insider trading is a good thing; literally part of the point. If they are instead how they function today, then insider trading is…

Where do you see a difference? Like you said, there is a libertarian argument that can be made for why insider trading is desirable. If the bet is easily manipulable, like how many times someone will visit a place, then the rational response is for others not to bet on that market. The same argument still holds. You can disagree with the libertarian argument, but I don't see how you can say that Polymarket et al. are…

I'm not a libertarian. My basic policy take on these "markets" is that they should be outlawed.

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#89
post #49
post #36

This issue reveals the gap between the prediction market premise and what these things actually are, which is: unregulated prop gambling venues. If things like Kalshi and Polymarket are prediction markets, then, at least as far as the intrinsic concerns of the market itself are concerned, insider trading is a good thing; literally part of the point. If they are instead how they function today, then insider trading is…

Even if you buy the idea that Kalshi is a prediction market whose mechanism is gambling but whose product is accurate predictions, you don't have to buy the idea that insider trading is a good thing. Yes, in the rare occasion there exists someone with (a) insider information (b) confidence their actions won't impact their insider position and (c) access to capital - then you get extremely accurate predictions. In eve…

Not just insider information, but insider access. If the outcome of some prop bet is under the control of a handful of people, those people can trivially conspire to produce whatever outcome is most profitable to them.

Re: Kalshi CEO expects US DOJ to prosecute insider trading cases

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As we are finding out in real time, the President has the power to try to do a million things, legal or illegal, constitutional or unconstitutional, and then whichever ones don't get pushback defacto become actual powers. Throw something at the wall, if it sticks, then it's a Presidential Power. If it doesn't, there's no consequences. Just shrug and throw something else at the wall.

The President's pardon power is enumerated in the Constitution and has been litigated extensively. https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S2-C1-3...

Which ultimately doesn't matter. If the president tries to do something, and no court actually stops him, then it doesn't matter whether or not it's in the Constitution, whether or not it's written down in law, or whether or not it has been litigated in the past. He tried to do it, nobody stopped him, therefore he can do it.

We are finding out in real time that the president can actually do a lot of things, simply because nobody is stopping him.

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