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CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

medicalxpress.com

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Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#81

Post by ButlerianJihad »

r_p4rk wrote: post #6
ButlerianJihad wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 99% are happy Unfortunately, that's not entirely accurate. 50-90% of babies with diagnosed Down Syndrome are aborted before having a chance to be born and enjoy their lives. In Iceland, that figure is 100%.

I don't see how this makes the figure any less accurate?

I would say that this actually does something remarkable to the statistic. Every child born with Down Syndrome must be highly valued and wanted, and their parents are likely to be strongly pro-life and invested in their human dignity. Any child who was likely to be considered a burden or troublesome, simply didn't make it.

So, you end up with a self-selecting population where the children really have been formed with an optimistic outlook on life, and their parents really did foster environments where they can live happily, and be nurtured despite the disability and obstacles that come up.

It is very nearly a talking point in favor of abortion: that if these babies are truly wanted and loved, they are not being born into a life of abuse, neglect, or disadvantage, which would be a risk for the ones who never made it at all.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#82

Post by amunozo »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #65
hgoel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recognizing that certain mutations very blatantly reduce a person's quality of life and making it possible to revert those mutations does not require treating the people who have not had those mutations reverted as lesser. Thinking of them as lesser leads to a society that prefers to drag each other down instead of lifting each other up.

I don't know about this argument because they seem a lot happier than I am. That's not to say that it's unreasonable to value intelligence over happiness, but framing it as quality of life seems off.

I had a uncle with Down syndrome. He was the sweetest and funniest person, we remember him every day more than 10 years after he passed away. Down syndrome carries a lot of physical health problems like heart or lung diseases which make their life very painful. He suffered from lung problems since he was 18 until he passed away at 49, living in a lot of pain and being a big burden to my mum and my grandma, who took care of him. Still, it's true, he never lost his smile and love her sister and mother back as much as it's possible, giving all of us who lived with him a lot of joy.

I am very conflicted with these kind of issues, but I think I am of the opinion that it's better to prevent this suffering, but once they're already here we should make their life as easier as possible.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#84

Post by RobotToaster »

wqaatwt wrote: post #77
hgoel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recognizing that certain mutations very blatantly reduce a person's quality of life and making it possible to revert those mutations does not require treating the people who have not had those mutations reverted as lesser. Thinking of them as lesser leads to a society that prefers to drag each other down instead of lifting each other up.

That’s still eugenics, though. Except this time it’s not pseudoscience.

Until a certain Austrian painter decided to practice eugenics in a uniquely negative way, the term was value neutral.

The motor bus was hailed as a eugenic invention because it helped prevent inbreeding in small villages, for instance.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#85

Post by voidUpdate »

I have very conflicted feelings about this sort of thing. On the one hand, Down's syndrome can make life very hard, for both the person with it, and their carers and the people around them. I can imagine that some people would have preferred it if they were able to "cure" it. I've often felt in the past that I would have preferred to have been born without autism and ADHD, and while I've been coping a little better with it nowadays, it definitely had a large impact on my childhood, and I know my parents struggled with it a lot.

On the other hand, this feels a bit like eugenics, and a slippery slope towards designer babies where you can pick and choose their attributes. I'm of the opinion that we should embrace the full diversity of human life, and if you can just cut out the parts of your children you don't like, that feels quite iffy to me

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#86

Post by c048 »

voidUpdate wrote: post #85

I have very conflicted feelings about this sort of thing. On the one hand, Down's syndrome can make life very hard, for both the person with it, and their carers and the people around them. I can imagine that some people would have preferred it if they were able to "cure" it. I've often felt in the past that I would have preferred to have been born without autism and ADHD, and while I've been coping a little better w…

The full diversity of life sounds wonderful, as long as you're not the one suffering painful, disfiguring or crippling conditions.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#87

Post by exe34 »

voidUpdate wrote: post #85

I have very conflicted feelings about this sort of thing. On the one hand, Down's syndrome can make life very hard, for both the person with it, and their carers and the people around them. I can imagine that some people would have preferred it if they were able to "cure" it. I've often felt in the past that I would have preferred to have been born without autism and ADHD, and while I've been coping a little better w…

I've always thought we should maintain a list of people like you. Every time we cure something, like blindness in one person, one of you gets picked and your eyes get poked out. That way the total amount of suffering will be conserved, but those who think that's necessary get to be the ones who pay the price for their beliefs.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#88

Post by dpiers »

voidUpdate wrote: post #85

I have very conflicted feelings about this sort of thing. On the one hand, Down's syndrome can make life very hard, for both the person with it, and their carers and the people around them. I can imagine that some people would have preferred it if they were able to "cure" it. I've often felt in the past that I would have preferred to have been born without autism and ADHD, and while I've been coping a little better w…

We already live in a world where parents decide whether or not a child with Down Syndrome will be born.

60-90% of prenatal diagnoses in the US result in an elective termination. The number is nearly 100% in Iceland and some other Nordic countries. Unlike autism or ADHD, we have a very clear understanding of exactly what causes Down Syndrome and now potentially how to correct it. A treatment like this is no different from correcting a congenital heart defect - it gives a baby a chance at normal, healthy development.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#89

Post by mkesper »

voidUpdate wrote: post #85

I have very conflicted feelings about this sort of thing. On the one hand, Down's syndrome can make life very hard, for both the person with it, and their carers and the people around them. I can imagine that some people would have preferred it if they were able to "cure" it. I've often felt in the past that I would have preferred to have been born without autism and ADHD, and while I've been coping a little better w…

You got to weigh this against abortions for unborn children diagnosed (maybe even wrongly, the tests are really not that exact) with Down's syndrome. The slippery slope already began a long time ago probably.

Re: CRISPR takes important step toward silencing Down syndrome’s extra chromosome

#90

Post by voidUpdate »

exe34 wrote: post #87
voidUpdate wrote: post #85

I have very conflicted feelings about this sort of thing. On the one hand, Down's syndrome can make life very hard, for both the person with it, and their carers and the people around them. I can imagine that some people would have preferred it if they were able to "cure" it. I've often felt in the past that I would have preferred to have been born without autism and ADHD, and while I've been coping a little better w…

I've always thought we should maintain a list of people like you. Every time we cure something, like blindness in one person, one of you gets picked and your eyes get poked out. That way the total amount of suffering will be conserved, but those who think that's necessary get to be the ones who pay the price for their beliefs.

In the first half of my comment, I explained that I don't think people should suffer. I'm just also aware that if everyone can pick their child's attributes, it could lead to a nation of blond-hair, blue-eyes kids
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