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NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

grocerydive.com

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Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#81

Post by tacostakohashi »

hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #76
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hey, let's try something new!" without a plan for success is just a recipe for failure. I honestly don't understand the desire for municipal grocery stores at all. Grocery stores famously operate on super slim margins, so it's not like they're raking in the dough. Many of them are often run extremely well. In Texas, HEB is so beloved that a lot of people consider it far better at disaster recovery operations than th…

I have a feeling that those slim margins don't really mean that Walmart is making e.g. 3 bucks on every 100 bucks ( https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/WMT/walmart/profit... ). There gotta be a lot of accounting magics working here. Otherwise you can't explain why they simply don't sell everything and buy bonds. I don't have a theory so hopefully some finance people can explain.

If they can make 3 bucks per hundred of sales, and do that more than once per year... then that beats a bond that pays only 3 percent per year...

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#82

Post by b112 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #63
b112 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, the cost of building includes a lot of permits, inspections, studies, and money to sldo so. Taxes too. Was all this waived?

I'm a firm believer that part of progressivism needs to be reining in these sorts of NIMBY obstacles.

Environmental assessments are NIMBY? Well regardless, the point is it should be the same for everyone.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#83

Post by pollorollo »

halflife wrote: post #3

This sounds extremely non economically viable. The municipality which has monopoly on land taxes and costs will compete with stores that must pay taxes and rent? Won’t it just cause neighboring stores to close? Won’t a better option be subsidizing taxes for grocery stores, and let the discounts competitively pass unto the customers?

Government owned grocery stores already exist [1]. They are run by the U.S. military, have 200+ locations, and charge at least 25% less than other brands [1].

"Surveys consistently rate the commissaries as one of the military's top non-pay benefits." NYC wants to provide similar benefits for residents.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Commissary_Agency [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQOXdtPBGXI

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#84

Post by gruez »

asdff wrote: post #66
gruez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Major grocers are more inclined to form cartels on price than to engage in organic competitive action. Even if we take at face value that this is happening, their margins are famously low (ie. low single digits[1][2]) that any improvements are likely negligible. In the best case scenario where they're run as competently/efficiently as a normal grocery store, but don't take any profits, you'd be saving like 50 cents…

Margins being low is fine when you've scaled across a nation. Annual gross profit for Kroger is $34b.

>Annual gross profit for Kroger is $34b.

What's the point of this observation other than for shock value? Yes, when you multiply small percentage by a huge number, you're still left with a huge number. That doesn't mean it's suddenly worth doing unless you can make the argument that it scales easily.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#85

Post by bherms »

Many people losing their minds over stuff like this... I'm just glad some people are finally trying out new ideas, because the status quo is not working for a large portion of the American population.

I just hope they properly track and monitor the outcomes and foster honest/open feedback. The gov't loves to throw money at problems, but never really does much to analyze, pivot, or admit when something doesn't work because that just gives the opposition ammo.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#86

Post by ceejayoz »

rdtsc wrote: post #80

> “Some will insist that city-owned businesses do not work, that government cannot keep up with corporations. My answer to them is simple: I look forward to the competition. May the most affordable grocery store win,” Mamdani said. Well it's interesting enough to try. Are they going to keep the stores open at a loss, that's not really competing then, is it? If they sell things that are much cheaper, restaurants could…

> If they sell things that are much cheaper, restaurants could start sourcing their food from there, too. Why get your chicken from some supplier if you can buy it from a cheaper government run store at much less.

Restaurants already do this. They buy from wholesalers, because they're cheaper than the grocery store.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#87

Post by hnthrowaway0315 »

tacostakohashi wrote: post #81
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that those slim margins don't really mean that Walmart is making e.g. 3 bucks on every 100 bucks ( https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/WMT/walmart/profit... ). There gotta be a lot of accounting magics working here. Otherwise you can't explain why they simply don't sell everything and buy bonds. I don't have a theory so hopefully some finance people can explain.

If they can make 3 bucks per hundred of sales, and do that more than once per year... then that beats a bond that pays only 3 percent per year...

Yeah that could be the explanation.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#88

Post by ceejayoz »

b112 wrote: post #82
ceejayoz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a firm believer that part of progressivism needs to be reining in these sorts of NIMBY obstacles.

Environmental assessments are NIMBY? Well regardless, the point is it should be the same for everyone.

> Environmental assessments are NIMBY?

It's a kiosk being added to a concrete sidewalk in the middle of Manhattan, by the city itself.

There must be a way to do projects of this small scale without spending years on paperwork.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#89

Post by gruez »

pollorollo wrote: post #83
halflife wrote: post #3

This sounds extremely non economically viable. The municipality which has monopoly on land taxes and costs will compete with stores that must pay taxes and rent? Won’t it just cause neighboring stores to close? Won’t a better option be subsidizing taxes for grocery stores, and let the discounts competitively pass unto the customers?

Government owned grocery stores already exist [1]. They are run by the U.S. military, have 200+ locations, and charge at least 25% less than other brands [1]. "Surveys consistently rate the commissaries as one of the military's top non-pay benefits." NYC wants to provide similar benefits for residents. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Commissary_Agency [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQOXdtPBGXI

From your own article:

>In 2024, DeCA estimated that it saved patrons $1.58 billion and had an operations cost of $1.7 billion, $1.5 billion of which was funded from appropriations.[8]

Isn't this the "selling $1 for 75 cents" business model (aka moviepass) that people made fun of a few years ago?

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#90

Post by bherms »

ceejayoz wrote: post #36
miketery wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we can does not mean we should. Here's how this will pan out. - A number of "officials" (friends) will get cushy jobs for running this program. - It will lose millions of tax dollars - a small portion of the population will get cheaper produce for a photo op - Mamdani and friends will call it a success - But net, this will be net negative for the city (ie. tax dollars to crony jobs and subsidizing food f…

> The USSR has tried this. Lets not. The USSR tried lots of things we do successfully. This is actually something governments have a proven ability to do, at least in some contexts, without becoming a corrupt boondoggle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Commissary_Agency

My fil owns a bunch of grocery stores in Russia. The gov't still essentially subsidizes the cost of basic goods to keep prices low for the poor. Because of this, even the poorest have access to what they need, and they worship Putin because of it - "he makes sure we're taken care of". Obviously we could get into the corruption, why they're so poor in the first place, etc, but it is clearly working pretty well.
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