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The secrets of the Shinkansen

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Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#81

Post by phrotoma »

Tor3 wrote: post #70

"The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world" That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever. I'm in Japan. I use trains because it's so very easy and it's so very reliable. It's simply the best option for travelling. If I wish to go to Tokyo? I check a website quickly, I look up the best connection for my schedule (easy to find), I may pa…

> “An advanced city is not one where even the poor use cars, but rather one where even the rich use public transport.”

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#82

Post by 0x3f »

objclxt wrote: post #21
0x3f wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TfL can barely build some flats in Zone 2 without the locals rioting like they're destroying a Cotswolds village. Actually, it can barely fix the literal busiest station in the country without a bunch of minor celebrity detractors riling up everyone about how much of a travesty it is that we're doing it. Without the public or central government support, the efforts you're talking about amount to very little.

> Actually, it can barely fix the literal busiest station in the country Liverpool Street isn't managed by TfL, it's managed by Network Rail.

Ah yes, was too into the screed. Same problem though.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#83

Post by Gravityloss »

Tor3 wrote: post #70

"The Japanese love cars, but they take trains because they have the best railway system in the world" That's exactly it. It's not because of some cultural bias or whatever. I'm in Japan. I use trains because it's so very easy and it's so very reliable. It's simply the best option for travelling. If I wish to go to Tokyo? I check a website quickly, I look up the best connection for my schedule (easy to find), I may pa…

Maybe some trains could be more redneck coded somehow? Steam trains with sweaty stokers and buffalo shooting from the windows of course had plenty of that, but how to bring something from that aesthetic to the present? Bar carriage with sports screens still sounds still a bit passive and cliche. Maybe a gym car? There are already kid and pet cars after all at least here. In German trains you get a real glass pint for your beer, I think that's a big plus.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#84

Post by 0x3f »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #61
0x3f wrote: post #4

It's a good article, but I think the "it's not culture, just good governance" idea is a little hand wavy. The two bleed into each other greatly. The fact that houses are more disposable and wealth is less intergenerational in Japan does a lot to tamp down the NIMBY issues that plague e.g. the UK. The UK is so far gone that the transport authority in it's largest city can't revamp stations or do add-on development wit…

>The UK is so far gone that the transport authority in it's largest city can't revamp stations or do add-on development without literal years of hand wringing. And even then it's often rejected or reduced in the end. They just finished a line that traverses the whole city. It's 73 miles from end to end and carries one seventh of the UK's rail journeys (600,000 trips per day).

The Elizabeth Line is basically at the bare minimum for a global Asian city. It's not even that good by comparison. It's really a joke that London only has one line of that caliber and it took them literally decades to build.

So it's touted as some great success but to me it's a sign of failure. They'll say similar things if they ever finish HSR in California. Yeah I'm sure the end product will be fine but the whole process is disgraceful.

Never mind the fact that the Elizabeth Line is only so over-utilized because London completely fails at building density in and around its center. So it has to make its people live in zone 30 and sit on the train for two hours every day.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#85

Post by KptMarchewa »

Tor3 wrote: post #73
jabl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China also has nationalized rail systems. The major reason for the failure in the US is that the rail lines are not publicly owned. The article we're discussing explains that Japan has the best passenger rail system in the world, and which happens to be privatized, along with privately owned track. So which one is it? Go figure.

I believe the Japanese private rail companies also own the lines where their traffic is. This would explain a lot. There are other countries (including my native one) where the trains are run by one company and the lines are owned by another. This does.not.work. For what seems like obvious reasons. There's no economic gain for the owner of the infrastructure to spend money, quite the opposite in fact.

In every EU country the infrastructure company (companies) is separate from companies that operate trains, with some usually small exceptions.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#86

Post by barney54 »

What is seldom mentioned in these conversations is that the United States has a very good rail system—-for freight. That’s what the U.S. system did well, not passengers. From the article it isn’t obvious how Japan moves freight, but they obviously aren’t moving a lot of freight on the Shinkansen.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#87

Post by barney54 »

timr wrote: post #29
wahern wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the country is long and narrow The northeast and west coast metropolitan corridors are similar, and combined have comparable populations, densities, and distances as Japan. Yet we can't even build a single high-speed line. And for all the excuses about the difficulty of building rail through developed regions, the existing rights of ways and infrastructure in both the NE and California are comparable to what everyb…

> The density of the NE is nothing like what you see elsewhere in the world, especially Asia, and Japan and China specifically. Yeah, I defy anyone who claims the US can't build trains "because of density" to fly to Tokyo, and actually take the Seibu Shinjuku line west from Shinjuku station. Look at those buildings built right next to the tracks , for many, many kilometers. People live in those -- if the windows open…

The U.S. can build trains and has a good rail system—for freight not passengers. It’s not obvious how Japan moves freight, but the U.S.’s rail system evolved to move freight efficiently. That is a huge difference and not necessarily the result of corruption or incompetence.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#88

Post by barney54 »

Gigachad wrote: post #19
Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

There is no excuse for the US’s failure. Many countries have large areas to cover. China is a similar size and has massive HSR coverage. The US could too if they didn’t waste all the money on corruption.

What is this corruption you are talking about? What specifically are you talking about? Things you don’t like aren’t necessarily the result of corruption.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#89

Post by presentation »

Animats wrote: post #13

Japan's railroad system has a big geographic advantage - the country is long and narrow. The railroad system is primarily a long end to end line with short crosswise branches.[1] That's an efficient structure. The branch lines don't have to be fast. Many are still narrow gauge, at 3 ft 6 in. The US had to fill a huge area in the railroad era. That left a lot of underutilized track once the road network got good. [1]…

China is giant and sprawling and they are able to do it.

That said this reply doesn’t actually address much of what the article talks about, most interestingly how rail companies are private and are also real estate developers. That thought process ought to make sense to Texans or something.

Re: The secrets of the Shinkansen

#90

Post by presentation »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #85
Tor3 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the Japanese private rail companies also own the lines where their traffic is. This would explain a lot. There are other countries (including my native one) where the trains are run by one company and the lines are owned by another. This does.not.work. For what seems like obvious reasons. There's no economic gain for the owner of the infrastructure to spend money, quite the opposite in fact.

In every EU country the infrastructure company (companies) is separate from companies that operate trains, with some usually small exceptions.

Well, to be honest, the results in Japan and China, where that isn’t the case, have turned out to be much better.
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