Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The looming college-enrollment death spiral

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 174 posts

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#81

Post by bananamogul »

ks2048 wrote: post #3

Right in the headline is a word choice I've notice lately that irks me, "democratization". "democratization" doesn't mean more people have access to it. In voting, "more access" means "more governing power" (in principle), but in other things, it does not. If you want to use "democratized" applied to higher-ed, it would mean more people are involved in the decision-making, leadership, or ownership.

Just wait until you realize that 99.999% of the time, when people say "methodology" they really mean "method". It'll drive you mad.

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#82

Post by dmoy »

Aurornis wrote: post #34
seniorThrowaway wrote: post #18

I think college's value proposition and entire model has been eroded. Major school's CS grads are finding jobs upon graduation at an 11% rate (I don't have the primary source on this, but it is published by a site I read that never fudges these kinds of things, going back many years). AI probably has a lot to do with that, but it's exposing something more fundamental. CS wasn't supposed to be a programming boot camp…

> Major school's CS grads are finding jobs upon graduation at an 11% rate (I don't have the primary source on this, but it is published by a site I read that never fudges these kinds of things, going back many years). I think you may have misread something. 11% is closer to the unemployment or underemployment rate for recent grads, not the employment rate. There may have been a short window during the intense layoffs…

In 2024 is 74%, not 11%

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:...

That is, 7% are unemployed, and 19% aren't able to find comp sci jobs.

I suspect it's worse now, but probably not 11%?

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#83

Post by linkregister »

dylan604 wrote: post #56
linkregister wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet universities have been available for several decades; correspondence degrees for almost a century. Sure, credentialing is a large part of students' choices to attend in-person. Yet the primary reason students attend universities in person is because most people learn best in-person, with personal interaction. I would not be confident in underemployment figures for 2025 published this early in the year. The N…

> Yet the primary reason students attend universities in person is the parties, the co-eds, and the start of life from outside the direct supervision of parental units. Let's be honest, all of this education stuff is secondary to that.

This seems like the conclusion someone would come to by watching 1980s college movies, not someone who looked at data. Community colleges, vocational schools, and commuter students represent a large proportion of college students, and are removed from the Animal House experience.

The primary goal for attending college, as stated by both students and parents, is for preparation for entrance into the workforce and adult life.

One can go to the engineering or computer science building in almost any U.S. or Canadian university and observe a student population that doesn't party on a regular basis.

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#84

Post by akramachamarei »

munificent wrote: post #46

As long as people are allowed to vote in the US, we have an incentive to ensure they are all well educated. Surely a large part of this problem that the article doesn't mention is that college is too fucking expensive. And an obvious solution to that is to tax rich people and use that to fund universities so that students don't have to go so far in debt in order to become productive members of society. It's crazy how…

The US tax system is substantially more progressive than you might think.¹ It seems unwise to make it even moreso. The tough pill to swallow, if we are to follow in e.g. Sweden's footsteps, is that you need to tax the middle class a lot more if you want the government to provide more services.

By the way, this whole discussion completely ignores that the country is BROKE. Why are we contemplating building a new patio and switching to Whole Foods when we're not even on pace to pay off the house??

1: https://manhattan.institute/article/correcting-the-top-10-ta...

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#85

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

seniorThrowaway wrote: post #18

I think college's value proposition and entire model has been eroded. Major school's CS grads are finding jobs upon graduation at an 11% rate (I don't have the primary source on this, but it is published by a site I read that never fudges these kinds of things, going back many years). AI probably has a lot to do with that, but it's exposing something more fundamental. CS wasn't supposed to be a programming boot camp…

The idea that the AVERAGE person should spend 4 years BOTH not working AND incurring massive amounts of (non-defaultable) debt is bananas.

College either needs to be 1) way cheaper, 2) mainly for the state-subsidized exceptional and independently wealthy, or 3) move to a different model.

We have too many colleges LARPing as Harvard, and too few colleges even attempting to be affordable, practical, or actually deliver value to the ordinary person.

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#86

Post by JumpCrisscross »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #85
seniorThrowaway wrote: post #18

I think college's value proposition and entire model has been eroded. Major school's CS grads are finding jobs upon graduation at an 11% rate (I don't have the primary source on this, but it is published by a site I read that never fudges these kinds of things, going back many years). AI probably has a lot to do with that, but it's exposing something more fundamental. CS wasn't supposed to be a programming boot camp…

The idea that the AVERAGE person should spend 4 years BOTH not working AND incurring massive amounts of (non-defaultable) debt is bananas. College either needs to be 1) way cheaper, 2) mainly for the state-subsidized exceptional and independently wealthy, or 3) move to a different model. We have too many colleges LARPing as Harvard, and too few colleges even attempting to be affordable, practical, or actually deliver…

Waterloo University sort of nails the balance with their focus on constant, paid internships.

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#87

Post by bashtoni »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #85
seniorThrowaway wrote: post #18

I think college's value proposition and entire model has been eroded. Major school's CS grads are finding jobs upon graduation at an 11% rate (I don't have the primary source on this, but it is published by a site I read that never fudges these kinds of things, going back many years). AI probably has a lot to do with that, but it's exposing something more fundamental. CS wasn't supposed to be a programming boot camp…

The idea that the AVERAGE person should spend 4 years BOTH not working AND incurring massive amounts of (non-defaultable) debt is bananas. College either needs to be 1) way cheaper, 2) mainly for the state-subsidized exceptional and independently wealthy, or 3) move to a different model. We have too many colleges LARPing as Harvard, and too few colleges even attempting to be affordable, practical, or actually deliver…

Higher education improves society as a whole. It should be paid for from general taxation, and available to all. Humanities subjects are just as valid a topic of study as STEM.

A couple of generations ago these were uncontroversial statements, now most people think you are crazy for suggesting such a thing. I think you can trace a lot of the problems in the western world back to this.

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#88

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

bashtoni wrote: post #87
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that the AVERAGE person should spend 4 years BOTH not working AND incurring massive amounts of (non-defaultable) debt is bananas. College either needs to be 1) way cheaper, 2) mainly for the state-subsidized exceptional and independently wealthy, or 3) move to a different model. We have too many colleges LARPing as Harvard, and too few colleges even attempting to be affordable, practical, or actually deliver…

Higher education improves society as a whole. It should be paid for from general taxation, and available to all. Humanities subjects are just as valid a topic of study as STEM. A couple of generations ago these were uncontroversial statements, now most people think you are crazy for suggesting such a thing. I think you can trace a lot of the problems in the western world back to this.

Lots of things benefit society and don't cost $40k per year per person in subsidies - mainly to the upper middle class.

Re: The looming college-enrollment death spiral

#89

Post by floxy »

bix6 wrote: post #29
seniorThrowaway wrote: post #18

I think college's value proposition and entire model has been eroded. Major school's CS grads are finding jobs upon graduation at an 11% rate (I don't have the primary source on this, but it is published by a site I read that never fudges these kinds of things, going back many years). AI probably has a lot to do with that, but it's exposing something more fundamental. CS wasn't supposed to be a programming boot camp…

Quick search shows around 6% unemployment for CS grads. Where is your number from? That is massively different.

Anyone have the stats for how the enrollment trends have been for CS programs at universities? Has there been a noticeable drop-off, potentially due to concerns of AI reducing/eliminating entry-level/junior roles? I suppose there would be some lag, since if you've been planning most of your high school career to get a CS degree, there is inertia in changing majors and applying to different universities. And now that we're mid-April, I'd even think the data for the incoming freshman would be pretty close at a 90% confidence level for the upcoming 2026/2027 academic year.
Post reply on HN