Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The End of Eleventy

brennan.day

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 195 posts

Re: The End of Eleventy

#81

Post by Liftyee »

Brajeshwar wrote: post #7
SoftTalker wrote: post #2

Didn't read because of the fuckery with the mouse pointer. Why do sites have to do this crap.

It has been a while (I think ever since Safari introduced Reader Mode), and I do almost all my reading on websites in Reader Mode. For some websites, I have set to “Use Reader Mode when Available,” such as that of paulgraham.com, daringfireball.net, and quite a few others with horrible Typography.

Guess I'll make this a habit and find a similar auto-Reader-Mode feature in Firefox. I like my cursor just the way it is.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#82

Post by pjmlp »

peteforde wrote: post #58

Many folks on HN are the exact sorts of people who have lived the thankless popular-enough-to-be-an-unpaid-job solo OSS maintainer dream, so I wonder if you feel as annoyed by the tone of this post as I do. I truly don't understand how the same folks that champion accessibility and humane ideals while humble bragging about working for $5/hour to help get local businesses online can throw so much shade on people who a…

The ultimate entitlement is refusing to pay for tooling, while expecting to be getting a paid job as well.

I am hard line on not feeling sorry for projects going away, being taken over by organisations, when it mattered people should have actually sponsored them, instead of bosting how great is to get it all for free/gratis.

Every, single time, someone posts a cool paid project, there is the usual comment why pay, look at MIT/BSD/Apache/... project so and so.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#83

Post by trinix912 »

pjmlp wrote: post #82
peteforde wrote: post #58

Many folks on HN are the exact sorts of people who have lived the thankless popular-enough-to-be-an-unpaid-job solo OSS maintainer dream, so I wonder if you feel as annoyed by the tone of this post as I do. I truly don't understand how the same folks that champion accessibility and humane ideals while humble bragging about working for $5/hour to help get local businesses online can throw so much shade on people who a…

The ultimate entitlement is refusing to pay for tooling, while expecting to be getting a paid job as well. I am hard line on not feeling sorry for projects going away, being taken over by organisations, when it mattered people should have actually sponsored them, instead of bosting how great is to get it all for free/gratis. Every, single time, someone posts a cool paid project, there is the usual comment why pay, lo…

That is true, but nowadays most paid projects end up being perpetual subscriptions. Which I kind of get, as on-going maintenance still costs, but it used to be that you paid for a tool once and only paid again if you wanted/needed an updated version. I'd gladly pay $15-$60 for a tool once (and again if I needed an update) but $10-$15 per month for 20 different things (that I will only use occasionally) is just out of reach for me financially and I live in a "rich" first-world country.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#84

Post by slopinthebag »

peteforde wrote: post #58

Many folks on HN are the exact sorts of people who have lived the thankless popular-enough-to-be-an-unpaid-job solo OSS maintainer dream, so I wonder if you feel as annoyed by the tone of this post as I do. I truly don't understand how the same folks that champion accessibility and humane ideals while humble bragging about working for $5/hour to help get local businesses online can throw so much shade on people who a…

Idk if it's fair to characterise someone helping build a "community-driven directory to help people discover and connect with grassroots organizations, clubs, activist groups, and community initiatives" as "working for $5/hour to help get local businesses online". It's akin to complaining that pro-bono work devalues the profession of law.

It feels like there is entitlement on both sides. People who do OSS work feel entitled to financial benefits, despite explicitly choosing to give their work away for free. And people who consume open source software feel entitled to unpaid labor in perpetuity. It kind of sucks on both ends.

Rich Hickey wrote an essay titled "Open Source is Not About You" [0], where he states "As a user of something open source you are not thereby entitled to anything at all. You are not entitled to contribute. You are not entitled to features. You are not entitled to the attention of others. You are not entitled to having value attached to your complaints. You are not entitled to this explanation."

This is true. Unequivocally. What is also true is that OSS is also not about the contributors. They aren't owed anything by the consumers. They aren't entitled to any compensation, and they aren't entitled to others putting effort into making their contributions sustainable, helping them make a living wage, or alleviating burnout. We're all adults here, we can stop working on something if it's causing us pain or suffering. And we can freely fork a project if it's going in a direction we don't agree. That is the nature of open source. It's just a licensing model, which only exists because of certain laws. Otherwise, it's just a decision on what is public and private. Nothing more.

So if a project isn't going in the direction you want? Shut up and fork it. Not getting paid for your work? Find a way to monetise it or move on. Don't whine about either of these things on the internet.

0: https://gist.github.com/richhickey/1563cddea1002958f96e7ba95...

Re: The End of Eleventy

#85

Post by slopinthebag »

Who cares? It's open source, you have the literal source code, fork it and move on.

Don't want to expend the effort to do so? Interesting.

Perhaps people need to be more realistic about the code they consume. Treat it as a finished product, take on dependencies you can either afford to maintain or don't need to be maintained at all. Have an exit plan. Relying on someone's unpaid labor to keep your own projects afloat is your problem.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#86

Post by slopinthebag »

PaulHoule wrote: post #14
prepend wrote: post #12

Sadly, SSGs can’t make money. Nor should they, because they are simple and sort of the whole point is to be simple and not require complicated resources to build or host. I wish them the best.

e.g. you can't afford to build your own Drupal from scratch but you can afford to build an SSG from scratch and it may even be simpler than customizing an existing SSG from scratch and dodging the WTF.

It's interesting to contrast that with other disciplines.

Like, you can't afford to build your own Unreal Engine from scratch, but most can't afford to build their own game engine from scratch either.

But site builders are just string concatenation, and CMSs are just CRUD. We overcomplicate it to the moon and back.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#87

Post by trinix912 »

ozim wrote: post #64
teekert wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started my client's site on Hugo, withing 2 days I was editing something for them every 30 mins (slight exaggeration). They wanted something they could edit, they don't do Markdown, they don't manually write URLs they want to drag images into their posts and pages. So bye bye Hugo.

Normal people refuse to learn markdown - they want RTF editor. I could understand someone might refuse learning LaTex but markdown is so simple. RTF editing sucks badly if you have to include it in your project. No one wants to specifically pay for implementing it but they also expect it to be there.

Nowadays you can just use one of those WYSIWYG markdown editors that come with a toolbar (incl. buttons for inserting images) and hide the formatting syntax by default.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#89

Post by uxcolumbo »

Brajeshwar wrote: post #7
SoftTalker wrote: post #2

Didn't read because of the fuckery with the mouse pointer. Why do sites have to do this crap.

It has been a while (I think ever since Safari introduced Reader Mode), and I do almost all my reading on websites in Reader Mode. For some websites, I have set to “Use Reader Mode when Available,” such as that of paulgraham.com, daringfireball.net, and quite a few others with horrible Typography.

Same here. Even this article wasn't that comfortable to read, so had to use Reader Mode.

I don't understand though why reader mode is not always available. The text is there.

Re: The End of Eleventy

#90

Post by 9dev »

wltr wrote: post #80
corny wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* live preview

I can live preview my website from my local server / computer / laptop, while writing content from basically anything. Even a cheap and underpowered writing deck with 400 MHz CPU. The options are limitless.

You're absolutely underestimating the complexity of proper live preview of changes. This is essentially "hot reload" mode, but on the public internet, because it has to run on a public domain. Getting that right is a challenge, and if you don't know why, you haven't attempted to solve it yet.
Post reply on HN