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Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

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Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#81

Post by commandersaki »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #55
AussieWog93 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>seeing programmers who are absolutely smart enough to run their own Linux system on computers they actually own actively choose not to do so is very disconcerting. I run macOS because Apple understands that QA testing is something of actual importance, and designing yet another package manager is not. I do spin up Linux every now and again to see if it's good yet, and always walk away. Why do documents print at ~50d…

[flagged]

The VM limitation is only for macOS guests, otherwise I can spin up as many VMs as I like, which is no different to doing so in Linux (since it cannot run macOS VMs).

Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#82

Post by array_key_first »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #52
matheusmoreira wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is not one person. I'm very happy to hate on all of them. I see what you mean though. I've given up on getting normal people to care, but seeing programmers who are absolutely smart enough to run their own Linux system on computers they actually own actively choose not to do so is very disconcerting.

>seeing programmers who are absolutely smart enough to run their own Linux system on computers they actually own actively choose not to do so is very disconcerting. I run macOS because Apple understands that QA testing is something of actual importance, and designing yet another package manager is not. I do spin up Linux every now and again to see if it's good yet, and always walk away. Why do documents print at ~50d…

All operating systems have bugs, and Apple doesn't have the QA it used to have. MacOS has basically been exclusively trending down in quality for a while now, while Linux continues to get better.

What you have to realize is that what Linux distros are doing is inherently more complicated. They're making a general purpose operating system intended to run on every computer.

Apple is making one operating system intended to run on maybe 0.1% of devices. Oh, and they also make those devices.

And MacOS is still trending down in quality, somehow.

Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#83

Post by ralph84 »

moondev wrote: post #41
ralph84 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because their business model is to sell tightly integrated hardware and software as a package. The hardware sales fund the software development. They don't want people who haven't bought the hardware using the software.

The VM limit only applies to the number of macOS VMs launched from macOS itself. My 2018 mac mini officially supports VMware ESXi to be installed directly on the hardware and virtualize any number of macOS machines Funny enough I can even launch more than 2 macOS vms on my framework chromebook with qemu + KVM from the integrated Linux terminal.

macOS is proprietary software. You need a license for every copy you run, whether it's in a VM or not. The VM limit is written into the macOS EULA.

> to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software, or any prior macOS or OS X operating system software or subsequent release of the Apple Software, within virtual operating system environments on each Apple-branded computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using macOS Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use.

Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#84

Post by herecomesthepre »

jaredklewis wrote: post #25
tempest_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has apple been a serious development platform in the last 20 years? I know a lot of devs like apple hardware because it is premium but OSX has always been "almost linux" controlled by a company that cares more about itunes then it does the people using their hardware to develop.

At least 9 out of every 10 software engineers I know does all their development on a mac. Because this sample is from my experience, it’s skewed to startups and tech companies. For sure, lots of devs outside those areas, but tech companies are a big chunk of the world’s developers. So yea I would say Apple is a “serious development platform” just given how much it dominates software development in the tech sector in…

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Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#85

Post by naikrovek »

FireBeyond wrote: post #69
moondev wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine buying a mac studio with 500+ GB of memory and being limited to 2 vms.

They discontinued the 512GB Studio, and the Pro is gone, so no fear there now.

They still EXIST though. And I saw one the other day on the Refurbished store. They’re definitely still around.

Even a 256GB model would run a load of 16GB VMs

Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#86

Post by naikrovek »

moondev wrote: post #43
naikrovek wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are likely scared of people who would run MacOS virtual desktop farms, without also buying an appropriate number of Apple machines. That’s what I would be worried about if my primary source of income was hardware sales.

Imagine buying a mac studio with 500+ GB of memory and being limited to 2 vms.

Yeah that is what I was going to do until I discovered the two VM limit. I was building a MacOS GitHub Actions farm, or rather, looking into it. I had written most of the code but my inertia screeched to a halt when I discovered the two VM limit for MacOS VMs.

Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#87

Post by herecomesthepre »

hparadiz wrote: post #38
OptionOfT wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the feeling a lot of people take Macs because the other option is a locked down Windows, and Linux is not offered.

The hardware for a Linux laptop right now is not great. Especially for an arm64 machine. Even if the hardware is good the chassis and everything else is typically plastic and shitty.

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Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#88

Post by AussieWog93 »

array_key_first wrote: post #82
AussieWog93 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>seeing programmers who are absolutely smart enough to run their own Linux system on computers they actually own actively choose not to do so is very disconcerting. I run macOS because Apple understands that QA testing is something of actual importance, and designing yet another package manager is not. I do spin up Linux every now and again to see if it's good yet, and always walk away. Why do documents print at ~50d…

All operating systems have bugs, and Apple doesn't have the QA it used to have. MacOS has basically been exclusively trending down in quality for a while now, while Linux continues to get better. What you have to realize is that what Linux distros are doing is inherently more complicated. They're making a general purpose operating system intended to run on every computer. Apple is making one operating system intended…

You're not wrong about the downwards trend in quality but we're still a long ways off from macOS or even Windows having the same level of QA issues that Linux does, on a regular desktop system.

Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#89

Post by [deleted] »

ralph84 wrote: post #83
moondev wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The VM limit only applies to the number of macOS VMs launched from macOS itself. My 2018 mac mini officially supports VMware ESXi to be installed directly on the hardware and virtualize any number of macOS machines Funny enough I can even launch more than 2 macOS vms on my framework chromebook with qemu + KVM from the integrated Linux terminal.

macOS is proprietary software. You need a license for every copy you run, whether it's in a VM or not. The VM limit is written into the macOS EULA. > to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software, or any prior macOS or OS X operating system software or subsequent release of the Apple Software, within virtual operating system environments on each Apple-branded computer you…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Silicon and Virtual Machines: Beating the 2 VM Limit (2023)

#90

Post by invalidname »

c0balt wrote: post #57
hparadiz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardware for a Linux laptop right now is not great. Especially for an arm64 machine. Even if the hardware is good the chassis and everything else is typically plastic and shitty.

That is a surprising sentiment. Most dell and Lenovo laptops work just fine and are usually of reasonably good build quality (non-plastic chassis etc.). arm64 is however mostly bad. The only real contender for Linux laptops (outside of asahi) was Snapdragon's chips but the HW support there was lacking iirc.

They give us Dell Linux machines from work. They suck so bad and we have so many problems. Overheating, camera is terrible, performance is bad relatively to the huge weight of the device. Everything is a huge step down from Macs.

Whenever I see Linux people comparing Linux and Mac I'm amazed at the audacity. They are not in the same league. Not by a mile. Even the CLI is more convenient on the Mac which is truly amazing to me.

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