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Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

taintedcoders.com

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Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#81

Post by fluffybucktsnek »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #76
fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an ecs data structure [...] ECS isn't a data structure tho, it's a pattern. You must be referring to the component storage. That's, at best, half the equation. You do realize the discussion is about the 50MB program, which uses both the component storage, the system scheduler and other features, right? > That's just adding a function pointer to field Just as much as creating a new process, through the IP/PC…

ECS isn't a data structure tho, it's a pattern. Every implementation out there is a data structure. You keep talking about things that use it and then lump them together. That's just you. You do realize the discussion is about the 50MB program, which uses both the component storage, the system scheduler and other features, right? No, the first person I replied to said that justified a 50MB program. A few other softwa…

> Every implementation out there is a data structure.

Examples?

> 50MB is not something you get to with 4 or 5 parts of a game engine.

Depends on the engine's architecture, runtime, etc. Again, don't know if you are blaming the bloat on those components alone (it seems like you are), but you haven't established a direct link between said components and the bloat, thus, it's hard to properly reason about the tradeoffs given that we don't know how said bloat scales.

> That's the stripped binary too, it was originally 700MB.

Actually, no. Rust doesn't strip binaries on release by default. There's a reason there's a guide about minimizing Rust program sizes.

> You brought it up, I'm not even sure what point you were trying to make.

You are the one who nitpicked over "You register functions", ignoring the rest of the sentence.

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#82

Post by CyberDildonics »

fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #80
CyberDildonics wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link describes a data structure and then just says "systems that use it" which is implied. Of course it gets used. Seems tautological.

I will need citation on which link, and how it defines ECS as a data structure. From [1]: > Entity component system (ECS) is a software architectural pattern. An ECS consists of entities composed of data components, along with systems that operate on those components. From [2]: > ECS ("Entity Component System") describes a design approach which promotes code reusability by separating data from behavior. Data is often…

What you just described is a data structure that gets used. If the user brings the behavior what is the ecs? It's the data structure.

Of course it will be used somehow. I don't call a std::vector a "vector system" because someone uses it, but I guess people think using this data structure makes it a "system".

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#83

Post by CyberDildonics »

fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #81
CyberDildonics wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ECS isn't a data structure tho, it's a pattern. Every implementation out there is a data structure. You keep talking about things that use it and then lump them together. That's just you. You do realize the discussion is about the 50MB program, which uses both the component storage, the system scheduler and other features, right? No, the first person I replied to said that justified a 50MB program. A few other softwa…

> Every implementation out there is a data structure. Examples? > 50MB is not something you get to with 4 or 5 parts of a game engine. Depends on the engine's architecture, runtime, etc. Again, don't know if you are blaming the bloat on those components alone (it seems like you are), but you haven't established a direct link between said components and the bloat, thus, it's hard to properly reason about the tradeoffs…

Depends on the engine's architecture,

No, it depends on excessive dependencies that themselves have dependencies.

There's a reason there's a guide about minimizing Rust program sizes.

And 50 MB was the stripped version, what is not sinking in?

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#84

Post by fluffybucktsnek »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #83
fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every implementation out there is a data structure. Examples? > 50MB is not something you get to with 4 or 5 parts of a game engine. Depends on the engine's architecture, runtime, etc. Again, don't know if you are blaming the bloat on those components alone (it seems like you are), but you haven't established a direct link between said components and the bloat, thus, it's hard to properly reason about the tradeoffs…

Depends on the engine's architecture, No, it depends on excessive dependencies that themselves have dependencies. There's a reason there's a guide about minimizing Rust program sizes. And 50 MB was the stripped version, what is not sinking in?

> No, it depends on excessive dependencies that themselves have dependencies.

Not necessarily. Not every dependency will generate code. Furthermore, those dependencies of dependencies are rather small. If you're so certain that's the case, then provide an actual analysis over a case. Would be an interesting read.

> And that 50MB was the stripped version. What is not sinking in?

From the reddit post you linked:

> paholg: Rust debug binaries tend to be large. What's the size of you compile in release mode? > talentedBlue: 49M. looks more reasonable > CleanCut9: You can strip the release binary to get it even smaller if you want

What didn't sink in is the fact that you don't seem to have read the linked thread appropriately.

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#85

Post by fluffybucktsnek »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #82
fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will need citation on which link, and how it defines ECS as a data structure. From [1]: > Entity component system (ECS) is a software architectural pattern. An ECS consists of entities composed of data components, along with systems that operate on those components. From [2]: > ECS ("Entity Component System") describes a design approach which promotes code reusability by separating data from behavior. Data is often…

What you just described is a data structure that gets used. If the user brings the behavior what is the ecs? It's the data structure. Of course it will be used somehow. I don't call a std::vector a "vector system" because someone uses it, but I guess people think using this data structure makes it a "system".

It's a data structure, except it doesn't describe how data is actually stored, only how its elements interact, so it's a data structure that doesn't actually structure data. If you are the kind of person that considers stuff like MVVM and Clean Architecture to be data structures, then I suppose it would be consistent. Most people don't.

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#86

Post by Ygg2 »

NewsaHackO wrote: post #79
Ygg2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is ten games in bevy engine https://youtu.be/50g3eSrSM6Q Rust has like 2-3 game engines and a bunch of bindings.

OK, so I didn't say random games, though. I said notable ones. None of those are notable, and half of them aren't even released yet.

No, the statement is there is more Rust engines than games.

It also adds easy to move goalpost of notability, that only accounts for luck and age, not actual capabilities.

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#87

Post by NewsaHackO »

Ygg2 wrote: post #86
NewsaHackO wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so I didn't say random games, though. I said notable ones. None of those are notable, and half of them aren't even released yet.

No, the statement is there is more Rust engines than games. It also adds easy to move goalpost of notability, that only accounts for luck and age, not actual capabilities.

I have created 1000 rust games engines. All will be released Q2 2031.

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#88

Post by CyberDildonics »

fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #85
CyberDildonics wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you just described is a data structure that gets used. If the user brings the behavior what is the ecs? It's the data structure. Of course it will be used somehow. I don't call a std::vector a "vector system" because someone uses it, but I guess people think using this data structure makes it a "system".

It's a data structure, except it doesn't describe how data is actually stored, only how its elements interact, so it's a data structure that doesn't actually structure data. If you are the kind of person that considers stuff like MVVM and Clean Architecture to be data structures, then I suppose it would be consistent. Most people don't.

It does store data so it is a data structure. Every implementation is meant to store data and the whole point is to have more memory locality so how it stores data is actually crucial.

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#89

Post by CyberDildonics »

fluffybucktsnek wrote: post #84
CyberDildonics wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the engine's architecture, No, it depends on excessive dependencies that themselves have dependencies. There's a reason there's a guide about minimizing Rust program sizes. And 50 MB was the stripped version, what is not sinking in?

> No, it depends on excessive dependencies that themselves have dependencies. Not necessarily. Not every dependency will generate code. Furthermore, those dependencies of dependencies are rather small. If you're so certain that's the case, then provide an actual analysis over a case. Would be an interesting read. > And that 50MB was the stripped version. What is not sinking in? From the reddit post you linked: > paho…

Not every dependency will generate code.

Who said that?

Furthermore, those dependencies of dependencies are rather small.

No, they add up to 50 MB.

Re: Bevy game development tutorials and in-depth resources

#90

Post by Ygg2 »

NewsaHackO wrote: post #87
Ygg2 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the statement is there is more Rust engines than games. It also adds easy to move goalpost of notability, that only accounts for luck and age, not actual capabilities.

I have created 1000 rust games engines. All will be released Q2 2031.

I have instructed Claude to make two games in each of your engines for Q3 2031. Your claim is still invalid :P
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