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S3 Files

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Re: S3 Files

#81
post #57
post #39

"NFS provides the semantics your applications expect" is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

Do your applications not expect any network hiccup to cause them to block indefinitely in a system call making them effectively unkillable and making the filesystem unmountable?

Don't forget the locking semantics. That was fun and caused Sage to fail.

Re: S3 Files

#82

S3 Files was launched today without support for atomic rename. This is not something you can bolt on. Can you imagine running Claude Code on your S3 Files and it just wants to do a little house cleaning, renaming a directory and suddenly a full copy is needed for every file in that directory? The hardest part in building a distributed filesystem is atomic rename. It's always rename. Scalable metadata file systems, li…

Indeed this is not an easy problem. And our s3-compatible system do support the atomic rename with extended protocol in a graceful way, see the demo with our tool [1]. [1] https://github.com/fractalbits-labs/fractalbits-main/tree/ma...

We have advanced to building S3 stores with claude code - impressive:

https://github.com/fractalbits-labs/fractalbits-main/graphs/...

Re: S3 Files

#83
post #62

The problem with using S3 as a filesystem is that it’s immutable, and that hasn’t changed with S3 Files. So if I have a large file and change 1 byte of it, or even just rename it, it needs to upload the entire file all over again. This seems most useful for read-heavy workflows of files that are small enough to fit in the cache.

Files can be immutable if you have mutable metadata - but S3 does not have mutable metadata, so you can't rename a directory without a full copy of all its contents.

Immutable files can be solved by chunking them, allowing files to be opened and appended to - we do this in HopsFS. However, random writes are typically not supported in scaleout metadata file systems - but rarely used by POSIX clients, thankfully.

Re: S3 Files

#84
post #75

This is essentially S3FS using EFS (AWS's managed NFS service) as a cache layer for active data and small random accesses. Unfortunately, this also means that it comes with some of EFS's eye-watering pricing: — All writes cost $0.06/GB, since everything is first written to the EFS cache. For write-heavy applications, this could be a dealbreaker. — Reads hitting the cache get billed at $0.03/GB. Large reads (>128kB) g…

> directly streamed from the underlying S3 bucket, which is free. No reads from S3 are free. All outgoing traffic from AWS is charged no matter what.

Reads from s3 via an s3 endpoint inside a vpc to an interface inside of that vpc is not billed.

Re: S3 Files

#85

This is essentially S3FS using EFS (AWS's managed NFS service) as a cache layer for active data and small random accesses. Unfortunately, this also means that it comes with some of EFS's eye-watering pricing: — All writes cost $0.06/GB, since everything is first written to the EFS cache. For write-heavy applications, this could be a dealbreaker. — Reads hitting the cache get billed at $0.03/GB. Large reads (>128kB) g…

This was my concern too. The whole point of using S3 as a file system instead of EBS / EFS (for me at least) is to minimize cost and I don't really see why I would use this instead of s3fs.

Probably some tradeoff at high client count or if you seek into files to read partial data

Re: S3 Files

#89
post #19
post #5

Zero mention of s3fs which already did this for decades.

This is pretty different than s3fs. s3fs is a FUSE file system that is backed by S3. This means that all of the non-atomic operations that you might want to do on S3 (including edits to the middle of files, renames, etc) are run on the machine running S3fs. As a result, if your machine crashes, it's not clear what's going to show up in your S3 bucket or if would corrupt things. As a result, S3fs is also slow because…

It also means that you need to pay for EFS, which is outrageously expensive, to use S3, whose whole purpose is to be cheap.
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