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The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

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Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#81

Post by cube00 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #71
ozgrakkurt wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really wrong perspective on software. Short term monkey style coding does not produce products. You might get money but that is not what it is about. This is similar to retarded builders in Turkey saying “wow, I can make the same building, sell for the same price, but spend way less” and then millions of people becoming victim when there is an earthquake. This is not how responsible people should think abou…

Nobody rewards responsibility though. It's all about making number go up.

...go up as fast as possible.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#82

Post by roughly »

semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

You can send a submarine down to crushing depths while violating all the traditional rules about "good" engineering, too.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#83

Post by freediddy »

saulpw wrote: post #8

> That wouldn’t even be a big violation of the vibe coding concept. You’re reading the innards a little but you’re only giving high-level, conceptual, abstract ideas about how problems should be solved. The machine is doing the vast majority, if not literally all, of the actual writing. Claude Code is being produced at AI Level 7 (Human specced, bots coded), whereas the author is arguing that AI Level 6 (Bots coded,…

That's an interesting list. I think that the humans that will make the most progress in the next few years are the ones that push themselves up to the highest level of that list. Right now is a period of intense disruption and there are many coders that don't like the idea that their way of life is dead. There are still blacksmiths around today but for the most part it's made by factories and cheap 3rd world labor. I think the same is currently happening with coding, except it will allow single builders and designers to do the same thing as an entire team 5 years ago.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#84

Post by nextos »

shimman wrote: post #20
semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

Yes that plus having tens of billions of gulf money certainly helps you subsidize your moronic failures with money that isn't yours while you continue, and fail to, achieve profitability in any time horizon within a single lifespan.

Also Claude owes its popularity mostly to the excellent model running behind the scenes.

The tooling can be hacky and of questionable quality yet, with such a model, things can still work out pretty well.

The moat is their training and fine-tuning for common programming languages.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#85

Post by slopinthebag »

semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

Yes, just get hundreds of billions of dollars in investments to build a leading product, and then use your massive legal team to force the usage of your highly subsidised and marketed subscription plan through your vibe coded software. This is excellent evidence that code doesn't matter.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#87

Post by steveBK123 »

semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

I'd imagine the AI engineers on million dollar TC are not vibe coding the models though, which is the actual sauce.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#88

Post by tombert »

semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

I suspect if people saw the handwritten code of many, many, many products that they used every day they would be shocked. I've worked at BigCos and startups, and a lot of the terrible code that makes it to production was shocking when I first started.

This isn't a dig at anyone, I've certainly shipped my share of bad code as well. Deadlines, despite my wishes sometimes, continue to exist. Sometimes you have to ship a hack to make a customer or manager happy, and then replacing those hacks with better code just never happens.

For that matter, the first draft of nearly anything I write is usually not great. I might just be stupid, but I doubt I'm unique; when I've written nice, beautiful, optimized code, it's usually a second or third draft, because ultimately I don't think I fully understand the problem and the assumptions I am allowed to make until I've finished the first draft. Usually for my personal projects, my first dozen or so commits will be pretty messy, and then I'll have cleanup branches that I merge to make the code less terrible.

This isn't inherently bad, but a lot of the time I am simply not given time to do a second or third draft of the code, because, again, deadlines, so my initial "just get it working" draft is what ships into production. I don't love it, and I kind of dread of some of the code with my name attached to it at BigCo ever gets leaked, but that's just how it is in the corporate world sometimes.

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#89

Post by Gagarin1917 »

andrenotgiant wrote: post #28
semicolon_storm wrote: post #14

It’s truly strange that people keep citing the quality of Claude code’s leaked source as if it’s proof vibe coding doesn’t work. If anything, it’s the exact opposite. It shows that you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code.

> you can build a crazy popular & successful product while violating all the traditional rules about “good” code which has always been true

Not according to some on HN. They consider it impossible to create a successful business with imperfect code. Lol

Re: The cult of vibe coding is dogfooding run amok

#90

Post by francisofascii »

saulpw wrote: post #8

> That wouldn’t even be a big violation of the vibe coding concept. You’re reading the innards a little but you’re only giving high-level, conceptual, abstract ideas about how problems should be solved. The machine is doing the vast majority, if not literally all, of the actual writing. Claude Code is being produced at AI Level 7 (Human specced, bots coded), whereas the author is arguing that AI Level 6 (Bots coded,…

At work I am at level 4, but my side projects have embarrassingly crept into Level 6. It is very tempting to accept the features as is, without taking the time understand how it works
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