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Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

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Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#81

Post by jmyeet »

What are we witnessesing is the beginning of the end of the post-WW2 rules-based international order. What's truly bizarre is that the US designed this order to benefit themselves and they're the ones destroying it now. NATO is a protection racket to outsource European security but really to sell arms to Europe and give the US effetive control over the European militaries.

Over the years the control has grown ever-more pervasive, such as with the control over banking and international payments. One anecdote of the extent of this influence is that if one European Venmos another European and puts "Cuba" or "Syria" in the memo field, they can have their account flagged or permanently banned [1]. The US gets to decide who can use credit cards and what for, which is something the EU has finally picked up on as an issue [2].

What's clear in all this is that China was completely correct to maintain sovereignty over their tech companies, platforms and data. What the US risks is that the EU is going to follow the China model. That means EU versions of cloud platforms, computing platforms, networking infrastructure and so on. And they'll do it similar to how China did by creating demand. Specifically, the EU will mandate the use of European platforms with all their contracts, the European parliament will pass laws as such for national governments and generally the pressure will increase to wean off of US tech companies.

IMHO this shift is as big a change as the post-1945 world order.

[1]: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/venmo-cuba-sanctions_n_571f80...

[2]:https://europeanbusinessmagazine.com/business/europes-24-tri...

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#82

Post by szszrk »

benoau wrote: post #74
szszrk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My monkey brain would love to see if corporate strategy would work here: For repeating offenses fines should rise much faster, multiplied by 10x-100x every time, until we find fines so big they are physically unable to pay even if corps would consider liquidating their all global assets. Then lower it just slightly, so that being operational in Europe would produce no financial benefits and see if they'll comply, or…

The DMA and DSA already allow fines up to 10 - 20% of global turnover (effectively 30 - 40% of annual profit) and breaking up noncompliant companies. The issue is nobody wants to pull the trigger because the companies that would get fined or broken up have curried favour with Trump to circumvent these consequences.

That's a similar scale as GDPR violations. And EU companies I worked with were always very serious about GDPR regulations, even if their internal training confirms fines were always really small compared to maximums.

US doesn't care about warnings and small fines, though. If penalties are not enforced, it's like they don't exist.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#83

Post by runarberg »

tokai wrote: post #80
SunshineTheCat wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're seeing here is why the US has such a massive amount of leverage over the EU. The US has for some time fostered an environment where people build and grow businesses. I've started many myself, some totally for fun. And as it happens some of those US businesses have grown into massive corporations, and yes, some not so great ones too. I think the EU in general (not everyone of course) leans more in the real…

>I think the EU in general (not everyone of course) leans more in the realm of letting the government take care of everything. Your understanding of business in EU countries seems to be make-believe and personal fantasy.

Also the picture of the US is totally fictional for the vast majority of people. The US has fostered an environment where only a tiny subset of the population can start a business. Even opening up a restaurant you are usually met with an avalanche of paperwork, of requirements to fulfill, and unless you have a lot of money to fix any issue, they rule some aspect of your business in violation. Even a tiny business like a food cart you need to make sure you keep it x meters from a public restroom, that your neighbors don‘t complaint, that you provide 2 parking spaces per gas-burner (or 3 if you use an induction stove) etc. etc.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#84

Post by whateverboat »

mikkupikku wrote: post #58

After decades of trying and broadly failing to regulate American tech corps, at what point does the EU admit that leveling fines against Meta will never stop Meta from being Meta, that American megacorps are essentially ungovernable in Europe (or elsewhere for that matter) and the best course of action is to ban and block them in Europe? Just more fines. Bigger fines, surely this will work eventually... It's been 20…

At some point, EU needs to build an alternative to those corps and that will never happen as long as they keep holding on to their precious pearl clutching regional and linguistic issues. EU needed to be a single country like 10 years ago.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#85

Post by soopypoos »

WarmWash wrote: post #56
picafrost wrote: post #18

[flagged]

Americans don't either, but the "free" (with ads*) model is so wildly popular with humans that it is unavoidable. If anything it's more interesting that it has American origins. At it's core, the model provides flat rate access to anyone of any class at no upfront cost. High value users with high ad conversion rates subsiding the platforms for low income low consumer spending users. That's something that is particula…

but the result is loud, crass and distasteful so...

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#86

Post by lioeters »

jmyeet wrote: post #81

What are we witnessesing is the beginning of the end of the post-WW2 rules-based international order. What's truly bizarre is that the US designed this order to benefit themselves and they're the ones destroying it now. NATO is a protection racket to outsource European security but really to sell arms to Europe and give the US effetive control over the European militaries. Over the years the control has grown ever-mo…

It will be messy, but if the EU can make political and economic decisions for the benefit of their own people, instead of subservient to the US, this paradigm shift could turn out to be very healthy and productive for the region and future generations. China's prosperity is undeniable, and it's due to their willingness to question the unipolar dominance of the US in the decades since WWII. In terms of economic and geopolitical strategy, they've been ahead of the game and prepared for the disintegration of the "rules-based" order. Is the EU ready?

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#87

Post by [deleted] »

elric wrote: post #78

The European Commission and Council are becoming increasingly unpopular among my peers. Sentiment towards the Parliament is generally still positive. But it's clear that two thirds of the Trilogue essentially don't give a shit about European people, their rights, their freedoms or their wellbeing. Things like Age Verification and Chat Control are going to blow up in their faces. I don't get how blind these institutio…

[deleted]

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#88

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

mikkupikku wrote: post #58

After decades of trying and broadly failing to regulate American tech corps, at what point does the EU admit that leveling fines against Meta will never stop Meta from being Meta, that American megacorps are essentially ungovernable in Europe (or elsewhere for that matter) and the best course of action is to ban and block them in Europe? Just more fines. Bigger fines, surely this will work eventually... It's been 20…

It's very hard to imagine the EU enacting a ban on products that over half of Europeans use, regardless of the theoretical benefits of doing so. It doesn't seem like a practical option.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#89

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

petcat wrote: post #24
picafrost wrote: post #18

[flagged]

> personal injury attorney > ... a degraded culture Do matters of personal injury liability not apply in Europe?

Personal injury cases exist everywhere, but most countries impose very strict restrictions on legal advertising, which greatly reduce the phenomenon of the "personal injury guy" who plasters his face everywhere with text about how much money he'll get you. In the US, most such restrictions were prohibited by the Supreme Court in the 80s.

Re: Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure

#90

Post by Gareth321 »

As a European I have been deeply disappointed with how toothless the EC has been on enforcing the Digital Markets Act. I have exactly one submission to Hacker News from 20 July 2022 when the DMA was approved (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32163704). I was incredibly hopeful, given the indicated timelines, that Apple would be forced to open up iOS and iPadOS. Meaning install an application from the internet without restriction, like with any other operating system. The wording clearly requires this (with some wiggle room for security). Apple has dragged this legal process out longer than even my most cynical prediction. I can only surmise that someone in the Commission or senior leadership has decided that enforcing the DMA is not politically expedient right now.

I don't know how to force this issue as a European. There are just too many levels of abstraction between me and Brussels. It looks like many layers of bureaucracy and a lot of opaque backroom deals and discussions. I don't like it at all. Especially given that the EU moves so much faster when it comes to regulations like forcing all of us in Denmark to use timesheets, annoying lids on our bottles, and invasive surveillance laws. All I see is my life getting worse with their actions. I am not alone. Sentiment towards the EU internally is not good right now. Either they start creating regulations which benefit ordinary people, or we're going to get a pretty radical rightward shift in leadership soon, and there are many risks associated with this.

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