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Vibe-Coded Ext4 for OpenBSD

lwn.net

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Re: Vibe-Coded Ext4 for OpenBSD

#81

Post by em-bee »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #80
em-bee wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not in an alternate universe, but it's a claim made by some free software people. i don't have time to search for a quote right now. yes, it is disputed, and the claim has not been tested in court. but it is an argument being made. the GPL was primarily a weapon against BSD. It's indeed a license that must be avoided at all cost. well, it depend on whose side you support. i am on the side of protecting the rights of…

> but it's a claim made by some free software people. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about... Everything I write is verifiable, have you heard of AI chat bots? Why are you going around asking old ladies for the latest gossip? > yes, it is disputed, and the claim has not been tested in court. Why don't you test in court? Do it, let's see what happens. Why did Linus wave middle fingers like a confus…

you may want to read the discussion here: https://lwn.net/Articles/998382/ "Is the GPL actually viral across dynamic linking?"

to quote one commenter there:

there's something socially wrong with taking someone's gift and ignoring the terms under which it was given. If you want a system where you can load any modules, use a BSD kernel. [...] If the creators of a GPL kernel label some items as an external API for anyone's use, and other items as GPL hooks for functionally internal code loaded externally, respect that.

me talking about "protection" is a call for solutions. if the interpretation of the GPL here is absurd, then the problem is not that it is wrong, but that the GPL does not provide enough protection. if you don' want that protection, fine, that's your choice. i do want that protection, and i am looking for solutions. if you are not interested in solving that problem then we don't need to continue this discussion.

Re: Vibe-Coded Ext4 for OpenBSD

#82

Post by bigbadfeline »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #80
em-bee wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not in an alternate universe, but it's a claim made by some free software people. i don't have time to search for a quote right now. yes, it is disputed, and the claim has not been tested in court. but it is an argument being made. the GPL was primarily a weapon against BSD. It's indeed a license that must be avoided at all cost. well, it depend on whose side you support. i am on the side of protecting the rights of…

> but it's a claim made by some free software people. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about... Everything I write is verifiable, have you heard of AI chat bots? Why are you going around asking old ladies for the latest gossip? > yes, it is disputed, and the claim has not been tested in court. Why don't you test in court? Do it, let's see what happens. Why did Linus wave middle fingers like a confus…

in response to - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47568753

> you may want to read the discussion "Is the GPL actually viral across dynamic linking?"

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? We are talking about an independent implementation of a BSD driver for Ext4-strucutred storage but you keep bringing up unrelated random pieces of chatter from around the web.

> but that the GPL does not provide enough protection.

But you don't understand the difference between copyright and contract. The GPL, or any other license based on copyright, cannot prevent the creation of the driver in question because it doesn't involve any copying of the kind protected by copyright law.

> if you are not interested in solving that problem then we don't need to continue this discussion.

Except, that's not the problem we are discussing.

Indeed, there's no point in continuing this discussion, you don't understand the basics, cannot follow the line of reasoning and keep getting lost in hallucinations.

Re: Vibe-Coded Ext4 for OpenBSD

#83

Post by lproven »

bigbadfeline wrote: post #82
bigbadfeline wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's a claim made by some free software people. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about... Everything I write is verifiable, have you heard of AI chat bots? Why are you going around asking old ladies for the latest gossip? > yes, it is disputed, and the claim has not been tested in court. Why don't you test in court? Do it, let's see what happens. Why did Linus wave middle fingers like a confus…

in response to - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47568753 > you may want to read the discussion "Is the GPL actually viral across dynamic linking?" What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? We are talking about an independent implementation of a BSD driver for Ext4-strucutred storage but you keep bringing up unrelated random pieces of chatter from around the web. > but that the GPL does not provi…

> an independent implementation of a BSD driver

It is not. That is the point here.

It's not independent.

If an LLM were able to generate code that can access ext4, then that LLM has to have ingested the original ext4 source code as part of its corpus.

LLMs cannot count. They cannot add 2 + 2. If it can emit code to do something then it contains in its model code to do that thing.

Therefore it is not an independent implementation.

Re: Vibe-Coded Ext4 for OpenBSD

#84

Post by bigbadfeline »

lproven wrote: post #83
bigbadfeline wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in response to - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47568753 > you may want to read the discussion "Is the GPL actually viral across dynamic linking?" What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? We are talking about an independent implementation of a BSD driver for Ext4-strucutred storage but you keep bringing up unrelated random pieces of chatter from around the web. > but that the GPL does not provi…

> an independent implementation of a BSD driver It is not. That is the point here. It's not independent. If an LLM were able to generate code that can access ext4, then that LLM has to have ingested the original ext4 source code as part of its corpus. LLMs cannot count. They cannot add 2 + 2. If it can emit code to do something then it contains in its model code to do that thing. Therefore it is not an independent im…

> It's not independent.

It is independent from the point of view of copyright law !!!

What GPL zealots wish to define as "independent" doesn't matter, blinded by their own zealotry, they end up arguing for extending the notion of copyright into pure absurdity in a grotesque contradiction to their own, rather feeble "principles".

> Therefore it is not an independent implementation.

You're ignorant about copyright and law in general. Copyright grants certain limited privileges for near verbatim copying only - it covers PARTICULAR EXPRESSIONS of ideas, NOT the ideas themselves - these are basics you know nothing about but you keep insisting to replace them with your hallucinations. I don't think you're human, no human is so deprived of comprehension.

In this case, an independent expression means one that doesn't have substantial verbatim or juxtaposed parts of the original. I can read as much poetry of some poet as I wish, and ape his style and topics as much as I wish but as long as there isn't any near-verbatim copying, my poetry will be independent for copyright purposes.

> Therefore it is not an independent implementation.

I told you already - go sue! You'll be told the same as I did here, as Oracle found out when they sued Google.

Don't waste you breath/tokens - sue - it's the only real argument.

If you don't sue, you prove to everyone that you know you're wrong but you're knowingly trash-talking in order to create uncertainty and confusion.

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