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Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

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Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#81

Post by joekrill »

jonex wrote: post #21

Feature request: Make it default behavior on phones that you can have multiple passwords, connected to different profiles. With no way to determine how many profiles a phone have. I'm sure there's some people here working on mobile operating systems, might be worth considering?

Android has a "Private Space" feature. As far as I can tell it's only a single extra profile you can create, but I think you can keep it "hidden" (at least in as much as you can't tell if it's been created without unlocking it).

https://source.android.com/docs/security/features/private-sp...

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#82

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

quentindanjou wrote: post #31
gruez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in the US and UK ??? Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. It is an issue for UK, though.

> Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. This is not totally true. It is also a US issue: CBP has been asking for passwords (or to unlock the device) for phones and computers for more than a year now. Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views that differ from those of the US's current preside…

You don't have the protections of U.S. law at the border.

CBP is also asking, not compelling. You don't have to give them your password. If you don't, and you're a foreigner, you may be turned away. If you're a citizen, and I remember correctly, they can seize your device for up to two days if they want.

But they're not going to put you in prison for refusing like the U.K. and Hong Kong will.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#83

Post by kubb »

danlitt wrote: post #73
kubb wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK: Police can search phones to counteract human traffickers. China: Police can search phones of dissidents, and jail them for life for criticising the Party. You: Europe is worse than China (or will be really soon I promise). Disingenuous.

Nobody claimed Europe was worse than China, only that if you wouldn't visit China for this reason then you shouldn't visit Europe (or the US) for the same reason. Speaking of being disingenuous, when you say "Police can search phones to counteract human traffickers", did you think critically about that at all before writing it? Given one of the stated justifications is "preventing terrorism", and the UK has been ille…

> Nobody claimed Europe was worse than China, only that if you wouldn't visit China for this reason then you shouldn't visit Europe (or the US) for the same reason.

That would be nonsensical. If you have anti-Xi propaganda on your phone (which could be the reasons you mention), you have nothing to fear in Europe or in the US and a lot to fear in China.

The US is actually worse than both China and Europe because it's 18th century amendments protect human traffickers. Although they do what they can to not have to adhere to those, especially in border control.

> What about Palestine Action...

I'll limit myself to the LARP about "oppressive Europe invigilating your phone".

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#84

Post by mothballed »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #82
quentindanjou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. This is not totally true. It is also a US issue: CBP has been asking for passwords (or to unlock the device) for phones and computers for more than a year now. Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views that differ from those of the US's current preside…

You don't have the protections of U.S. law at the border. CBP is also asking , not compelling. You don't have to give them your password. If you don't, and you're a foreigner, you may be turned away. If you're a citizen, and I remember correctly, they can seize your device for up to two days if they want. But they're not going to put you in prison for refusing like the U.K. and Hong Kong will.

CBP has absolutely put me in jail (not prison) for refusing to answer questions (including the strip search and being put in chains and handcuffs). As well as threatening to revoke my passport (though they could not). On another occasion they threatened to deport me even though I'm a US citizen. On yet another, they faked a drug dog hit then dragged me to multiple hospitals, racking up bills in my name while claiming I was packing drugs up my ass. I am still being chased by debt collectors for the last one.

I've contacted multiple lawyers and the answer got was they've tried cases like these before and they always lose so they don't take them anymore. Though this was pre-Trump, now it's suddenly in vogue to take up longshot border or immigration cases.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#85

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

mothballed wrote: post #84
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have the protections of U.S. law at the border. CBP is also asking , not compelling. You don't have to give them your password. If you don't, and you're a foreigner, you may be turned away. If you're a citizen, and I remember correctly, they can seize your device for up to two days if they want. But they're not going to put you in prison for refusing like the U.K. and Hong Kong will.

CBP has absolutely put me in jail (not prison) for refusing to answer questions (including the strip search and being put in chains and handcuffs). As well as threatening to revoke my passport (though they could not). On another occasion they threatened to deport me even though I'm a US citizen. On yet another, they faked a drug dog hit then dragged me to multiple hospitals, racking up bills in my name while claiming…

That sucks. You were wronged, and I hope you get justice.

In the U.K. or Hong Kong, "justice" would entail prison.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#86

Post by jobs_throwaway »

mikhael wrote: post #63
jonex wrote: post #21

Feature request: Make it default behavior on phones that you can have multiple passwords, connected to different profiles. With no way to determine how many profiles a phone have. I'm sure there's some people here working on mobile operating systems, might be worth considering?

> Provide fake credentials? Three years behind bars.

They would be real credentials, just to a separate profile. Are they going to make multiple profiles illegal?

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#87

Post by iamnothere »

em-bee wrote: post #78
everdrive wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, which is why they need to start changing their behavior.

how? whatsapp, wechat, telegram, even signal, all require a phone to be used. if i didn't need any of those apps then sure, but unfortunately there is no way around these apps if i want to keep in touch with certain people that are important to me.

If you “must” use those then keep a phone off in a drawer and turn it on once a day to keep in touch.

If those people won’t allow you to be offline from time to time and aren’t willing to switch communication methods as an alternative, maybe it’s not a symmetrical relationship.

Or use something like Beeper (works on Linux): https://www.beeper.com/

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#88

Post by kleiba »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #43
kleiba wrote: post #23

It would be nice if phones had a feature where you can define more than one pin, but only one is for your actual phone contents - the other ones leave you to a completely harmless but otherwise indistinguishable looking smartphone interface that contains no or only completely bogus data.

It would be nice if I didn't get beaten with a hose in a vain attempt to prove that I unlocked the "real" one.

> with a hose

You mean wrench? https://xkcd.com/538/

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#89

Post by wat10000 »

quentindanjou wrote: post #31
gruez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in the US and UK ??? Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. It is an issue for UK, though.

> Of all the issues with the US justice system, being compelled to disclose passwords isn't one of them. This is not totally true. It is also a US issue: CBP has been asking for passwords (or to unlock the device) for phones and computers for more than a year now. Last year, multiple people got turned around because they disagreed with US policies and political views that differ from those of the US's current preside…

I don't approve of CBP's approach here, but being denied entry to the country isn't punishment, even if it might feel like it at the time. And that only applies to non-citizens, where entry is fairly reasonably at the government's discretion. Citizens must be admitted regardless.

Rules at the border tend to be pretty restrictive almost everywhere. You can literally get in trouble for having a sandwich in your bag. I'd wager Hong Kong border control was also empowered to request phone passwords and turn away refusers long before this change.

Re: Hong Kong police can now demand phone passwords under new security rules

#90

Post by Stefan-H »

kleiba wrote: post #88
pavel_lishin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if I didn't get beaten with a hose in a vain attempt to prove that I unlocked the "real" one.

> with a hose You mean wrench? https://xkcd.com/538/

If you've read Applied Cryptography, you'd know it is definitely a hose.
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