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GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

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Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#81

Post by dathinab »

crimsonnoodle58 wrote: post #59
nout wrote: post #25

In the meantime systemd already added handling for Age to the system bus. Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for...

Why? Why should Linux ever implement local laws like this as core functionality? Especially invasive/anti-privacy ones. If someone wants to introduce an age-verification-ca-module, fine, but not make it core. Yes I understand systemd is not the kernel, but its ubiquitous enough. That just says to every country around the world; Windows, Mac, and even Linux is on board too, let's make it law also! I dunno, I always ex…

> Why?

it's maintained by companies

they have to comply with law

that they are mostly US companies doesn't exactly help either

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#82

Post by ErroneousBosh »

Polizeiposaune wrote: post #41
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd need to closely read the law and have a lawyer advise you, but a neat attempt might be to just ask for the date of birth, send that "in real time" to the App Store program, and then have that program simply discard it? I don't think current iterations of the law require that this be sent off-device in any way.

The second requirement of the California law is that there be an API available to all apps that returns the age band a user is in -- one of: age age >= 13 && age age >= 16 && age age >= 18 A non-maliciously compliant implementation would need to retain a date of birth or equivalent until the user was over 18. A maliciously compliant API could just wait 18 years after account creation before yielding an answer. (remem…

> The second requirement of the California law is that there be an API available to all apps that returns the age band a user is in -- one of:

Is anyone actually going to bother to do this though? Why would they?

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#83

Post by sammysep »

NotPractical wrote: post #30
HybridStatAnim8 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorola likely wont sell devices with GOS preinstalled in those regions.

Wasn't most of the hype surrounding the Motorola partnership based on the idea that you'd be able to get a device with GrapheneOS pre-installed, boosting the legitimacy of GrapheneOS as a competitor to Google Android? Sure, "GrapheneOS adds several more supported devices" is cool and all, but it's not nearly as exciting...

[dead]

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#84

Post by pas »

zamalek wrote: post #79
izacus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about, most households give personal phones to their children, especially teenagers. Laptops aren't rare either.

Give the kid a device that is age-controlled. No need for all devices to support it.

the law is there because parents are fucking clueless unprincipled whining crybabies, who need a lot of support, and sometimes that includes a bit of pushing ...

or who knows what problem is this supposed to fix. orphans buying phones? kids buying secret phones behind their parents back?

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#85

Post by whynotmaybe »

idatum wrote: post #74

Can someone catch me up how FB et al are not the ones responsible for age verification? Is it lack of something similar to PKI for identify verification?

If we go back a few years and analyze the porn magazines that are sold in a gas station, it's not up to the magazine to ensure that the "reader" has the legal age.

So we delegated the responsibility twice, first the gas station attendant must check the age of the buyer and then, the buyer should check the age of any reader.

So now, who's the "gas station attendant" in our situation?

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#86

Post by pas »

idatum wrote: post #74

Can someone catch me up how FB et al are not the ones responsible for age verification? Is it lack of something similar to PKI for identify verification?

because there are other sites/apps online too, and it's better to decouple the "obtaining the verification" and the "presenting the verification"

and if sites and apps don't need to be in the loop for this they can't end up leaking all over the 'net

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#87

Post by HybridStatAnim8 »

NotPractical wrote: post #30
HybridStatAnim8 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorola likely wont sell devices with GOS preinstalled in those regions.

Wasn't most of the hype surrounding the Motorola partnership based on the idea that you'd be able to get a device with GrapheneOS pre-installed, boosting the legitimacy of GrapheneOS as a competitor to Google Android? Sure, "GrapheneOS adds several more supported devices" is cool and all, but it's not nearly as exciting...

No. The bare minimum is that Motorola provides the needed baseline hardware security requirements to their future devices. Everything else is just a bonus. There could be green-boot support and/or preinstalled devices, but thats not a necessity. GOS benefits with an official hardware platform, potentially early partner access to AOSP source code, input on hardware and firmware decisions, and Motorola benefits by potentially having GOS features, better hardware security, and making tons of money from alternate OS users, GOS or otherwise.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#89

Post by HybridStatAnim8 »

fph wrote: post #61
HybridStatAnim8 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preinstalled devices is not the main goal of the partnership. GOS is ok without having that to start. Motorolas stock OS will still be available.

Let me add that the typical GrapheneOS user will probably prefer to install the OS themselves rather than trust what comes preinstalled.

The typical GOS user generally doesnt want to do that. Flashing is a hurdle that increases barrier for entry. Reducing or eliminating that burden is ideal. Greenboot support would make flashing a little easier.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#90

Post by HybridStatAnim8 »

mmooss wrote: post #23

The GrapheneOS Mastodon post says, "GrapheneOS will remain usable by anyone around the world without requiring personal information, identification or an account." https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116261301913660830 That raises the issues that GrapheneOS needs to solve, which may require more creativity than bold, somtimes combative statements. If GrapheneOS doesn't comply with laws and regulations then they wil…

They wont break the law, they will just move to where there are no such regulations. This isnt a promise to violate laws.
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