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Store birth date in systemd for age verification

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Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#81

Post by egorfine »

bitwize wrote: post #20
miohtama wrote: post #2

This should be the time for open-source developers to use their common sense to decide whether we should push back. If California wants to create its own Protect the children operating system, it should bear the cost and responsibility for this alone, and not export any of the sketchy political agenda to the wider open source community.

It's the law. If you live in the United States, and a minor in California uses your OS that didn't check age, you could be liable for up to $2500 per occurrence. That can add up quickly if California schoolkids discover your OS does an end run around the law. When ruin is the alternative, compliance becomes non-negotiable.

Gasing the Jews was the law as well.

Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#82

Post by egorfine »

mzajc wrote: post #9

Tangentially related, but does anyone know what Poettering's "cryptographically verifiable integrity" endeavor[0] is about yet? [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46784572

Given that:

* LP had zero objections to merging this commit into systemd [1];

* Amutable CEO is confident they have a very robust path to revenue [2];

* It is Facebook that pushes age verification laws all around the world;

I sense that his new startup is exactly what we are afraid of: a way to prevent reverting of these patch and then actually enforce the upcoming mandatory KYC to use the computer.

[1] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/40954#issuecomment-4...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46785048

Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#83

Post by egorfine »

jprjr_ wrote: post #11

I cannot express how disappointed I am to see open source projects giving in to complying with age attestation laws. I feel like complying really undermines any first amendment arguments. Software is a first amendment protected form of expression, giving in before getting any actual threats from the state makes your participation seem voluntary. Systemd's participation puts the entire world into compliance with a Cal…

Given the LP history I am not surprised.

Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#84

Post by egorfine »

zeratax wrote: post #21
noobermin wrote: post #6

The context is that this is in response to California in the US potentially passing a law that requires age verification on the operating system level.

there is no verification happening though

First they have to build infrastructure for the future mandatory KYC. So, age field comes first, then comes new Poettering startup to deny you modifications of your Linux, and finally you are not allowed to use a computer unless you present your ID.

Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#85

Post by egorfine »

I wonder who this https://github.com/dylanmtaylor guy is. Comes out of the blue and posts PRs into lots of open source repositories for this feature that should repulse every self-respecting human being.

And not only that, but he engages in communication with people in tickets and ignores all constructive criticism.

Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#86

Post by egorfine »

Given that:

* LP had zero objections to merging this commit into systemd [1];

* Amutable CEO is confident they have a very robust path to revenue [2];

* It is Facebook that pushes age verification laws all around the world;

I sense that his new startup is exactly what we are afraid of: a way to prevent reverting of these patch and then actually enforce the upcoming mandatory KYC to use the computer.

[1] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/40954#issuecomment-4...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46785048

Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#87

Post by wolvoleo »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #47
iamnothere wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BSDs don’t use SystemD, neither do some distros. After they have been exposed here as collaborators I suspect we will see freedom-respecting distros move away from them. I myself have been neutral to weakly positive on SystemD until now, as they put forward some decent solutions to longstanding problems, but from now on I intend to stop using their software entirely. As it turns out, the people who warned against “pr…

Just to be clear and specific, formal engineering processes and corporate selling out are two orthogonal properties that should never be conflated. Stuff millions of people use shouldn't be slapped together as a "hobby" without careful testing and change control processes. It also should get sufficient (crowd)funding so it can get the attention it deserves.

I disagree, I would much rather see my OS made by hobbyists like myself with the same goals as myself rather than big tech who definitely don't have the same goals and values.

It's one of the reasons I use BSD on my main machine. I think Linux has been infiltrated by big tech way too much.

Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#88

Post by wolvoleo »

wolvoleo wrote: post #80
treesknees wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because systemd isn’t an operating system. It’s just providing a mechanism for the OS to store/lookup the user’s birthday. It’s up to individual distros to do the verification (should the law stand and OS vendors choose to comply)

True but I'm very much opposed to building the underpinnings for this stuff. If you build it they will use it.

Besides, my OS has no business knowing my date of birth whatsoever. All it should know is the account name I gave it which of course doesn't have to match my real name.

Re: Store birth date in systemd for age verification

#89

Post by wolvoleo »

egorfine wrote: post #82
mzajc wrote: post #9

Tangentially related, but does anyone know what Poettering's "cryptographically verifiable integrity" endeavor[0] is about yet? [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46784572

Given that: * LP had zero objections to merging this commit into systemd [1]; * Amutable CEO is confident they have a very robust path to revenue [2]; * It is Facebook that pushes age verification laws all around the world; I sense that his new startup is exactly what we are afraid of: a way to prevent reverting of these patch and then actually enforce the upcoming mandatory KYC to use the computer. [1] https://githu…

What other benefit is there to remote attestation? Because their "verification" stamp is just that. It's certainly not got any benefit for the user.
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