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North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

theregister.com

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Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#81

Post by Barrin92 »

Genuinely baffled by the logistics of this. The article makes it sound like these are large numbers of people in NK or surrounding countries who rely on Google translate, so not sophisticated spies or whatever.

Even if they get their hands on a fake American ID, these are taxable, insured jobs, they're not working at a restaurant under the table. IT companies ship out hardware, where are these people banked etc?

How does this practically look, officially you're working with Mark Johnson but you end up on a zoom call with a guy who speaks broken English and connects from the other part of the world and you're not suspicious?

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#82

Post by usefulcat »

wat10000 wrote: post #78
abtinf wrote: post #7

I’m a little unclear on the usage of the word “fake” here. Going by article, these are real people doing actual real work, they often use stolen identities to conceal information about themselves, and they get help from outside sources to do their jobs better. Whatever the right word is, it’s not “fake”. Maybe fraudulent? Or ulterior motives? Or deceptive? Or pretext? Or threat actor? Or foreign agents?

"Fake" seems fine. If I buy a fake watch, that might mean that it's a real watch that does its job of telling time, but it says "Rolex" on the front and that's a lie.

In that example it would be more common to describe the watch as a "fake Rolex", for the reason you give (it's a real watch).

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#83

Post by jhj »

staplung wrote: post #15

The numbers in the headline seem odd. They imply that each (fake|fraudulent) worker only nets $5000 per year for Kim. I know the system has some inefficiencies where people behind the scenes are helping the "employee" with the work and there are cost of living expenses, taxes etc. but that seems like a pretty low take.

This might include people working in lumber camps in places like Siberia, "mercenaries" in Ukraine, people in NK-managed restaurants in China, Laos etc, or similar efforts that have been reported on, where the average revenue per worker is likely a lot lower.

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#84

Post by usefulcat »

remarkEon wrote: post #77
cj wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The far more common fraud is: 1) Hire fake candidate 2) You realize they're fake 1-2 weeks into the role. They are unreliable. They don't show up for meetings. You have trouble communicating with them 3) You fire them But they've already won the game. They collected a single paycheck. And for an intermediate (even junior) dev position, collecting even just a single paycheck is a big pay day for them. The main cost to…

This is a little baffling to me, if you're suggesting this is an actual method people employ to make a living. Interviewing is difficult and stressful. Or maybe their approach is a shotgun strategy, so they don't care?

If they're living in NK then maybe their alternatives for making a living are mostly much worse than this?

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#85

Post by tylerchilds »

MrPapz wrote: post #76
calvinmorrison wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of my earnings go to my employer too... we bill clients at X and I get a small portion of it

Exactly. As slave as them.

Not an apt metaphor because we can just walk away and never see our employers again if that’s our free will.

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#86

Post by usefulcat »

staplung wrote: post #15

The numbers in the headline seem odd. They imply that each (fake|fraudulent) worker only nets $5000 per year for Kim. I know the system has some inefficiencies where people behind the scenes are helping the "employee" with the work and there are cost of living expenses, taxes etc. but that seems like a pretty low take.

Maybe some of them don't remain employed for very long.

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#87

Post by abtinf »

wat10000 wrote: post #78
abtinf wrote: post #7

I’m a little unclear on the usage of the word “fake” here. Going by article, these are real people doing actual real work, they often use stolen identities to conceal information about themselves, and they get help from outside sources to do their jobs better. Whatever the right word is, it’s not “fake”. Maybe fraudulent? Or ulterior motives? Or deceptive? Or pretext? Or threat actor? Or foreign agents?

"Fake" seems fine. If I buy a fake watch, that might mean that it's a real watch that does its job of telling time, but it says "Rolex" on the front and that's a lie.

The proper term in your example is “counterfeit”.

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#88

Post by nottorp »

But are only North Koreans fake?

I got an offer to "lend" my resume/identity to an upwork profile for a couple hundred per ... week iirc. Or was it month?

It could have been NK but it could have also been any other country where that makes financial sense. Or someone running a bunch of "AI"s.

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#89

Post by memonkey »

tylerchilds wrote: post #85
MrPapz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. As slave as them.

Not an apt metaphor because we can just walk away and never see our employers again if that’s our free will.

I know we're getting deep in the meta discussion but the free will that you're describing involves basically starving to death. Sure, you can walk away but unless you're well off, we all basically live in the same society that makes sure you are ALWAYS dependent on some kind of wage. You cannot live off the land, build housing, or eat food without some kind of income in the modern world. And thus the concept of wage slave.

Re: North Korean's 100k fake IT workers net $500M a year for Kim

#90

Post by wahnfrieden »

tylerchilds wrote: post #85
MrPapz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. As slave as them.

Not an apt metaphor because we can just walk away and never see our employers again if that’s our free will.

You’ll lose your health insurance
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