Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 107 posts

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#81

Post by xg15 »

bensyverson wrote: post #19

Ha, this is fun. But there's a kernel of truth to it. The problem with American culture specifically is that it treats "happiness" as a goal, rather than a fleeting feeling that is probably better described with a more specific word (joy, accomplishment, excitement, satisfaction, contentment). Our culture leans on this so hard that people start to think there's something wrong with them if they're not feeling general…

Feels to me like this is good old "if a measure becomes a target, it stops being a good measure".

I.e. happiness is a good measure to identify other things in your life: If something makes you unhappy, address it, if something makes you happy, follow it. (Very simplified)

But if you make "maximizing happiness" the direct target without any context, you get drugs.

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#83

Post by hn92726819 »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #71
limagnolia wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think it possible for some one to die happy?

No. It's certainly not a goal. And even if it can somehow happen, soneone could be resigned or drugged, it's different from something like "happy to die". This question itself seems to be a perfect example of the point that the word is worse than meaningless. Worse because people use it like it has a useful meaning. One can die in a state that has a lot of the qualities or features that overlap with other states that…

What emotion must people be feeling when they die then?

> the word is worse than meaningless

It seems as though you are redefining it to be meaningless, then projecting that onto everyone else. Is it not curious to you that everyone else takes no issue with its usage?

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#84

Post by thewebguyd »

jayd16 wrote: post #59

I think the DSM 5 says a disorder must cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Correct. But even that definition risks over pathologizing the human experience. It creates a distinction between a broken brain and a reasonable reaction to a broken environment.

DSM defines a disorder by how well an individual fits into the current economic and social system. Technically, if someone is so blissfully happy they stop showing up to their job, they would actually meet the criteria for a disorder.

Just like if someone lives in a high-crime area with little security they may have crippling anxiety. DSM would say they have a generalized anxiety disorder, but I would argue they don't, they are experiencing a reasonable reaction to a broken environment.

We are far too quick to jump to "this person isn't functioning in society, therefore something must be wrong with them" instead of doing the hard work of adapting our social and economic systems to be more inclusive of different types of human experiences.

Case in point, homosexuality used to be a sociopathic personality disorder, and pre-DSM we thought it was a mental illness causing enslaved people to want to escape slavery.

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#85

Post by bensyverson »

thewebguyd wrote: post #80
cortesoft wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have often felt conflicted about happiness and what we should strive for in our lives. It is true that most people seem to think happiness is the ultimate goal for life. They say they just want to be happy, that they just want their kids to be happy. Often times, though, it seems almost circular in logic; any time you pushback against the idea of happiness or why being happy all the time isn’t always good, people w…

> I have often felt conflicted about happiness and what we should strive for in our lives. It's the striving itself that is the source of our suffering & dissatisfaction The reason its hard to articulate what we want is we are conditioned to think of our life as a series of targets to hit, but that striving is where we suffer. Maybe you target wealth, then you look for happiness, then you look for meaning, and it doe…

> It's the striving itself that is the source of our suffering & dissatisfaction

thewebguyd out here laying down some Noble Truths!

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#86

Post by dataviz1000 »

setsewerd wrote: post #67
dataviz1000 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For truly to enjoy bodily warmth, some small part of you must be cold, for there is no quality in this world that is not what it is merely by contrast. Nothing exists in itself." -- Herman Melville. He describing to enjoy the warmth of blankets on a freezing winter night, it is imperative the nose be exposed to the cold likely as a metaphor to enjoy "happiness" something is needed for contrast.

It's always fascinating to see how fundamental concepts of Buddhist teachings appear in different names, forms, and metaphors across cultures. Dependent origination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da?wp... While some ideas are more obvious than others I always wonder whether the same insights occurred independently (of each other -- excuse the poor choice of words), or if the ideas can all tra…

> I always wonder whether the same insights occurred independently

No. Authors, Henry David Thoreau in 1854 and here Melville in 1851, and others at the time in that region were very heavily influenced by Hindu scriptures especially the Bhagavad Gita. Hindu mythology was mentioned several times in Moby Dick including referring to the whale as the Fish Incarnation of Vishnu.

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#87

Post by zombot »

bensyverson wrote: post #19

Ha, this is fun. But there's a kernel of truth to it. The problem with American culture specifically is that it treats "happiness" as a goal, rather than a fleeting feeling that is probably better described with a more specific word (joy, accomplishment, excitement, satisfaction, contentment). Our culture leans on this so hard that people start to think there's something wrong with them if they're not feeling general…

Happiness, when pursued, does its best to escape.

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#88

Post by RunningDroid »

thewebguyd wrote: post #84
jayd16 wrote: post #59

I think the DSM 5 says a disorder must cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Correct. But even that definition risks over pathologizing the human experience. It creates a distinction between a broken brain and a reasonable reaction to a broken environment. DSM defines a disorder by how well an individual fits into the current economic and social system. Technically, if someone is so blissfully happy they stop showing up to their job, they would actually meet the criteria for a disorder. Just…

> We are far too quick to jump to "this person isn't functioning in society, therefore something must be wrong with them" instead of doing the hard work of adapting our social and economic systems to be more inclusive of different types of human experiences.

Careful saying things like that, someone might accuse you of being a socialist (slight /s)

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#89

Post by mikkupikku »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #62
bensyverson wrote: post #19

Ha, this is fun. But there's a kernel of truth to it. The problem with American culture specifically is that it treats "happiness" as a goal, rather than a fleeting feeling that is probably better described with a more specific word (joy, accomplishment, excitement, satisfaction, contentment). Our culture leans on this so hard that people start to think there's something wrong with them if they're not feeling general…

"For truly to enjoy bodily warmth, some small part of you must be cold, for there is no quality in this world that is not what it is merely by contrast. Nothing exists in itself." -- Herman Melville. He describing to enjoy the warmth of blankets on a freezing winter night, it is imperative the nose be exposed to the cold likely as a metaphor to enjoy "happiness" something is needed for contrast.

I love that part of Moby Dick, it's so perfectly true. I always sleep with my feet sticking out for this reason.

Re: A proposal to classify happiness as a psychiatric disorder (1992)

#90

Post by dotancohen »

joshmarlow wrote: post #23
bensyverson wrote: post #19

Ha, this is fun. But there's a kernel of truth to it. The problem with American culture specifically is that it treats "happiness" as a goal, rather than a fleeting feeling that is probably better described with a more specific word (joy, accomplishment, excitement, satisfaction, contentment). Our culture leans on this so hard that people start to think there's something wrong with them if they're not feeling general…

A few years ago I read a claim that the word 'happy' is relatively young - ~500 years old - and that translations of others words into 'happy' are somewhat approximate. My takeaway is that (presuming the argument is correct) that much of human striving is probably better described with specific words (as you suggested - joy, accomplishment, fulfillment, excitement, etc). For most of human history, most people probabl…

The word שמחה and conjugations appear in the Bible about 200 times, so we have a good idea of what it means in context. It means exactly what I perceive the noun Happiness and the adjective Happy to mean in English.
Post reply on HN