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Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

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Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#81

Post by II2II »

tart-lemonade wrote: post #70
Krutonium wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has been involved in OpenRCT2, which is another Chris Sawyer/Atari game, from what I can tell, Atari has a very hands off approach to these things. We know they know about us - We saw their Head of PR giving away keys for RCT2 on Twitch while playing OpenRCT2, prior to the release of RCT World (What a terrible game sadly). As far as we can tell, it's basically a "don't cause us problems and we won't bo…

> As far as we can tell, it's basically a "don't cause us problems and we won't bother you" situation. In this case, the "problem" seems to be "we want to lazily cash in on an existing IP and you providing a better product for free on the same shelves as ours makes that difficult", with the "solution" being to agree to have the better (free) version bundled with the lesser (paid) version. I suppose it's better than b…

> In this case, the "problem" seems to be "we want to lazily cash in on an existing IP and you providing a better product for free on the same shelves as ours makes that difficult", with the "solution" being to agree to have the better (free) version bundled with the lesser (paid) version.

At least they want to "lazily cash in". A lot of gamers like to talk about preserving history, yet are critical the moment businesses preserve that history doing it the way businesses naturally do things (i.e. by selling a product).

Besides, we do not know what went on behind the scenes here. It could be anything from the open source developers voluntarily pulling their game from the store, to the publisher requesting they pull their game from the store, to the publisher threatening legal action. Heck, the publisher may have even paid the developers of OpenTTD to bundle their engine with TTD. While some scenarios are more likely than others, we are too quick to attribute actions and motivations based upon non-existent information.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#83

Post by flomo »

TuxMark5 wrote: post #20

This doesn't feel right for me. OpenTTD is so much superior in every way compared to the original TTD, that noone in their right mind would ever play the original. So Atari now, while spending zero effort compared to the years of work that OpenTTD devs put in, will basically sell OpenTTD as if was their own creation. People who buy the new TTD will simply play OpenTTD anyway, since it's so much better. I might be wro…

Before OpenTDD was ready, the improved signals and etc were originally part of "TTDPatch", which made the original 'model railroad' much more fun. So I stuck with that for a long time. They should at least ship the patch with the original game.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#84

Post by Chaosvex »

altairprime wrote: post #30
TuxMark5 wrote: post #20

This doesn't feel right for me. OpenTTD is so much superior in every way compared to the original TTD, that noone in their right mind would ever play the original. So Atari now, while spending zero effort compared to the years of work that OpenTTD devs put in, will basically sell OpenTTD as if was their own creation. People who buy the new TTD will simply play OpenTTD anyway, since it's so much better. I might be wro…

The downsides of putting “TTD” in the name “OpenTTD” is a certain level of vulnerability to the original creator (or a rights inheritor) deciding it’s worth their time to care again someday. I suspect this will do more for the TTD community than it will harm it, though; any modern sale of TTD is targeted precisely at the folks who would take mortal offense at harm to OpenTTD, and $10 (which would have been merely $5…

It's similar to Valve and Dota2. We all know what it means but officially, it isn't actually DotA and doesn't stand for anything. They will never refer to the game as Defense of the Ancients. Seems to have worked for them.

Worth noting that the Atari of today is a shell corporation that has precisely zero to do with the original.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#85

Post by streptomycin »

TuxMark5 wrote: post #50
fwipsy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atari didn't put in the effort, but Chris Sawyer did. Now Atari paid Sawyer for the rights to the game. I do not think Atari is a parasite here just because they paid for the game instead of creating it. It seems to me that the logical outcome of your interpretation is that Sawyer's leniency towards the OpenTTD devs would be punished by losing exclusivity to his IP. Essentially, you are asserting "squatter's rights"…

My issue with this argument is that I'm not sure how much of OpenTTD is their IP. OpenTTD has been development for so long that I doubt that any original disassembly remnants remain in the latest version of OpenTTD. The only true piece of IP that OpenTTD may use is the name (the TTD part of OpenTTD) and the graphics, the latter of which being the more important one. However, as far as I know, OpenTTD devs have create…

Making a clone of a video game, even with some substantial changes, may not actually be legal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_Holding,_LLC_v._Xio_Int....

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#86

Post by Chaosvex »

fwipsy wrote: post #45
TuxMark5 wrote: post #20

This doesn't feel right for me. OpenTTD is so much superior in every way compared to the original TTD, that noone in their right mind would ever play the original. So Atari now, while spending zero effort compared to the years of work that OpenTTD devs put in, will basically sell OpenTTD as if was their own creation. People who buy the new TTD will simply play OpenTTD anyway, since it's so much better. I might be wro…

Atari didn't put in the effort, but Chris Sawyer did. Now Atari paid Sawyer for the rights to the game. I do not think Atari is a parasite here just because they paid for the game instead of creating it. It seems to me that the logical outcome of your interpretation is that Sawyer's leniency towards the OpenTTD devs would be punished by losing exclusivity to his IP. Essentially, you are asserting "squatter's rights"…

The Atari that may have paid for development no longer exists. This is a skin suit of a legal entity.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#87

Post by Chaosvex »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #60
TuxMark5 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My issue with this argument is that I'm not sure how much of OpenTTD is their IP. OpenTTD has been development for so long that I doubt that any original disassembly remnants remain in the latest version of OpenTTD. The only true piece of IP that OpenTTD may use is the name (the TTD part of OpenTTD) and the graphics, the latter of which being the more important one. However, as far as I know, OpenTTD devs have create…

Also "TTD" is hardly a name you can claim. It's three letters that don't make a word.

As long as it officially stands for nothing, perhaps. See DotA vs Dota2.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#88

Post by Chaosvex »

01100011 wrote: post #38
TuxMark5 wrote: post #20

This doesn't feel right for me. OpenTTD is so much superior in every way compared to the original TTD, that noone in their right mind would ever play the original. So Atari now, while spending zero effort compared to the years of work that OpenTTD devs put in, will basically sell OpenTTD as if was their own creation. People who buy the new TTD will simply play OpenTTD anyway, since it's so much better. I might be wro…

> while spending zero effort Why do you think it took such little effort? Is it simply utilizing an emulation/portability package like Proton?

Yes, it is.

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#89

Post by nubinetwork »

TuxMark5 wrote: post #20

This doesn't feel right for me. OpenTTD is so much superior in every way compared to the original TTD, that noone in their right mind would ever play the original. So Atari now, while spending zero effort compared to the years of work that OpenTTD devs put in, will basically sell OpenTTD as if was their own creation. People who buy the new TTD will simply play OpenTTD anyway, since it's so much better. I might be wro…

> Atari

> parasites

This is pretty typical for Atari... any software that ever graced their consoles magically becomes their IP, ripe for exploitation, even if they didn't write it...

Re: Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam

#90

Post by jjmarr »

pvdebbe wrote: post #77
Macha wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that a big difference between cargodist and simutrans is in simutrans the customers have a destination before they come to your station, so opening up new routes will increase your customer base. In cargodist, you get the same amount of passengers, regardless of connected destinations, and they just choose from among connected destinations in your network.

I really want somebody to mod this into OpenTTD because cargodist was a good step and a nice approximation for a time, it's no match to the "destination in mind" pax. I'm reduced to play commercial offerings like Transport Fever 2. But as far as I know, it would be a considerable undertaking. Elsewhere in the thread chain: >[OpenTTD has bad UI] Hmm, really? It's cluttered with windows and options but I think the mech…

> I'm reduced to play commercial offerings like Transport Fever 2.

Literally play Simutrans. Same window UI from the 90s.

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