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512 Paths to the White House

nytimes.com

81–90 of 175 posts

Re: 512 Paths to the White House

#81
post #60

Well I guess it's that time in the cycle again: for people to complain about the electoral college (disclaimer: I'm not American). Over the years in different elections in different countries I've heard this complaint [1] > The electoral college is incredibly unfair to voters who live in states that lean opposite their view. Translation: > It's unfair that I don't get my way even though I'm in the minority. Also, thi…

> The electoral college is incredibly unfair to voters who live in states that lean opposite their view.

The Constitution doesn't mandate how electoral votes are allocated. Maine and Nebraska, for example, distribute the electoral college votes by congressional district. So the winner take all policy of most states isn't due to the electoral college itself, but how the states choose to implement it.

Re: 512 Paths to the White House

#82
post #60

Well I guess it's that time in the cycle again: for people to complain about the electoral college (disclaimer: I'm not American). Over the years in different elections in different countries I've heard this complaint [1] > The electoral college is incredibly unfair to voters who live in states that lean opposite their view. Translation: > It's unfair that I don't get my way even though I'm in the minority. Also, thi…

[deleted]

Re: 512 Paths to the White House

#83
post #60

Well I guess it's that time in the cycle again: for people to complain about the electoral college (disclaimer: I'm not American). Over the years in different elections in different countries I've heard this complaint [1] > The electoral college is incredibly unfair to voters who live in states that lean opposite their view. Translation: > It's unfair that I don't get my way even though I'm in the minority. Also, thi…

> 1) The argument for (1) is that mandatory voting leads to uninformed people voting. I assure you that uninformed people are already voting.

I'd argue that passionate people are more likely to vote. Arguably, they deserve to be heard, since they care so much about politics. On the other hand, they may be brainwashed idiots.

It also creates a lot more divisive candidates. Obama is a far-left (by US standards, in Australia or Europe he'd be center-right). Bush was far-right. You need to be extreme to win the primaries, and need to stay extreme to get your base excited enough to vote. Polarising candidates encourages debate (which is good), but also encourages group-think.

> As for (2) the problem is that this reinforces a two-party system. A vote for a minor party is often a vote for the other side (eg voting for the Greens is a vote that would probably otherwise go to a Democrat so is effectively a vote for the Republicans).

Once again, this makes it hard for a compromise candidate to win, and makes it hard for extreme groups to win anything more than a small percent. It's the worst of both worlds - less debate, and more extreme Presidents.

Re: 512 Paths to the White House

#86
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"> The electoral college is incredibly unfair to voters who live in states that lean opposite their view. Translation: > It's unfair that I don't get my way even though I'm in the minority." You appear to be writing this off as a minor issue. It is not. If Mitt Romney wins 49.999% of the vote in any state, and Obama wins the rest, Obama is awarded ALL of that state's electoral votes. That hardly reflects the will of…

> That hardly reflects the will of the people in the context of a /national/ election. Federal.

Well, actually I used the term "national" to try to distinguish it from senate and congressional races. The term "federal election" may in the minds of many include senate and congressional races, both of which are decided exclusively by the vote within the state and aren't part of this discussion. Had I said "federal election" I would have undoubtedly been corrected on that point as well.

Re: 512 Paths to the White House

#87

The electoral college is incredibly unfair to voters who live in states that lean opposite their view. I fully understand that the popular vote option has its issues (focusing on large population areas, etc.). However, a lot of this can be mitigated through legislation and regulation of the process. Here's a random set of ideas: - Candidates are only allowed to visit each state capital once. That's it. - Candidates a…

> - Candidates are only allowed to visit each state capital once. That's it. > > - Public endorsement of any candidate is illegal. They have to float and survive on their platform and track record. > > - Candidates are not allowed to trash the other candidates. They are only allowed to discuss their views. > >- Candidates are awarded an amount of money to run their campaigns. No external contributions from any source whatsoever. None. > >- Television networks are prohibited from endorsing or communicating bias

So, you want to ban free speech in an election?

Let's say Bill Clinton wants to appear at a pro-choice rally in Ohio, in the run-up to an election. Can he do so? Can he talk about "extremists" who are trying to ban abortion, even in cases of rape, incest, and for medical reasons? He won't mention Obama or Romney, and might not even refer to their exact positions (attacking a straw man is more fun anyway), he's just a guy exercising his right to speak about political issues.

Can Republican supporters fund an ad about the dangers of socialised healthcare?

What is "communicating bias"?

>- The publication of poll data is illegal

I'm not even sure what problem you are trying to solve. Can parties conduct opinion polls for internal use? Can they talk to people in the mall about what issues they care about?

>- A candidate must post a huge bond. If he or she is found telling lies they end-up in prison and have huge financial consequences. > >- Campaign promises are recorded and signed in a document that is publicly available. A politician that does not deliver on promises made is exposed to financial and criminal liability. Don't make promises you can't keep.

So, you want candidates to deliberately be even more vague than they already are?

Re: 512 Paths to the White House

#88
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The game theory is not complicated at all for a first-past-the-post election with two candidates: candidates will cater to the median voter. There's even a theorem proving it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_voter_theorem "Skewing" a democratic political system towards regions with more people in them would be vastly, vastly preferable to our current system. A number of big warts in US policy can be explained, at…

From the article you quoted: The assumptions include a majoritarian election system in which political views are along a one-dimensional spectrum. Political views are not along a one-dimensional spectrum. As soon as you add another dimension, FPTP elections favor extremism according to the visualizations I linked to elsewhere in the thread ( http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/ ).

Adding another dimension doesn't make a difference; adding another candidate does.

Re: 512 Paths to the White House

#89
post #8

Damn, I wish I lived in one of the states that gets to choose our president.

It may actually happen in our lifetime. The small states would never allow such a change to the constitution. (A presidential voter in Wyoming has almost 4 times the vote of a Californian.) But the big states may have found a work around: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstat... In short, the states that agree to the compact agree to proportion all of their electoral votes to the winner of the…

I'm surprised that most of the states supporting this are democrat or swing states.

I guess more red states will get behind this if Obama wins the election, but loses the popular vote.

Re: 512 Paths to the White House

#90
This is all window dressing. Elections do not decide who wins. Funding does. And as long as corporations can outspend private citizens companies decide elections.

If you wanted to reform elections in the USA then you would have to start to curb the direct influence of corporations on the elections, compared to that the electoral college is a minor detail.

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