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Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

nytimes.com

81–90 of 469 posts

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re a bit behind on your world view. Just because it’s inconvenient to you that non coders can now code, doesn’t make it untrue.

No, they can’t. It has nothing to do with inconvenience. I really like that layman now make these statements - they know better than people working in the industry for decades.

[deleted]

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#82
post #77
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI assisted code can't even stick to the API documentation, especially if the data structures are not consistent and have evolved over time. You would see Claude literally pulling function after function from thin air, desperately trying to fulfill your complicated business logic and even when it's complete, it doesn't look neat at all. Yes, it will have test coverage, but one more feature request will probably break…

So just iterate on it? Your complaint is that the model isn't one shotting the problem and reading your mind about style. It's like any coding workflow, make it work, then make it nice.

No, I never expect AI to one-shot (if I see such a miracle, it's usually because I needed a one-liner or something really simple and well documented, which I can also write on the whiteboard from memory).

Try iterating over well known APIs where the response payloads are already gigantic JSONs, there are multiple ways to get certain data and they are all inconsistent and Claude spits out function after function, laying waste to your codebase. I found no amount of style guideline documents to resolve this issue.

I'd rather read the documentation myself and write the code by hand rather than reviewing for the umpteenth time when Claude splits these new functions between e.g. __init__.py and main.py and god knows where, mixing business logic with plumbing and transport layers as an art form. God it was atrocious during the first few months of FastMCP.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#83

Having an AI is like having a dedicated assistant or junior programmer that sometimes has senior-level insights. I use it to do tedious tasks where I don't care about the code - like today I used it to generate a static web page that let me experiment with the spring-ai chat bot code I was writing - basic. But yesterday it was able to track down the cause of a very obscure bug having to do with a pom.xml loading two…

For any non professional work its there for me.

Wire up authentication system with sso. done Setup websockets, stream audio from mic, transcribe with elvenlabs. done.

Shit that would take me hours takes literally 5 mins.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#84
how many times in the history of computer programming has there been an end to computer programming as we know it, successfully, and how many times predicted?

I can think of one successfully, off hand, although you could probably convince me there was more than one.

the principle phrase being "as we know it", since that implies a large scale change to how it works but it continues afterwards, altered.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#86
post #39

This is a very one-sided article, unashamedly so. Where's the references to the decline in quality and embarrassing outages for Amazon, Microsoft, etc?

Do we know that it decreased the quality, or introduced more opportunities for bugs by simply increasing the velocity? If every commit has a fixed probability of having a bug, you'll run into more bugs in a week by going faster.

> Do we know that it decreased the quality, or introduced more opportunities for bugs by simply increasing the velocity?

That's an easy question to answer - you can look at outages per feature released.

You may be instead looking at outages per loc written.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#87

how many times in the history of computer programming has there been an end to computer programming as we know it, successfully, and how many times predicted? I can think of one successfully, off hand, although you could probably convince me there was more than one. the principle phrase being "as we know it", since that implies a large scale change to how it works but it continues afterwards, altered.

Off the top of my head, I can think of the following during my career:

   1. COBOL (we actually did still use it back in the 80s)

   2.AI back in the 80s (Dr. Dobbs was all concerned about it ...)

   3. RAD

   4. No-Code

   5. Off-shoring

   6. Web 2.0

   7. Web 3.0

   8. possibly the ADA/provably correct push depending on your area of programming

TBH - I think the AI's are nice tools, but they got a long way to go before it's the 'end of computer programming as we know it'

edit: formatting

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#88
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's just not even remotely my experience. and i am ~20k hours into my programming career. ai makes most things so much faster that it is hard to justify ever doing large classes of things yourself (as much as this hurts my aesthetic sensibilities, it simply is what it is).

Part of this depends on if you care that the AI wrote the code "your way." I've been in shops with rather exotic and specific style guides and standards which the AI would not or will not conform to.

Yeah, I also highly value consistency in my projects, which forces me to keep an eye on the LLM and steer it often. This limits my overall velocity especially on larger features. But I'm still much faster with the agent. Recent example, https://github.com/igor47/csheet/pull/68 -- this took me a couple of hours pairing with Claude code, which is insane give the size of the work here. Though this PR creates a bunch of tables, routes, services -- it's not just greenfield CRUD work. We're figuring out how to model a complicated domain, integrating with existing code, thinking through complex integrations including with LLMs at run time. Claude is writing almost all the code, I'm just steering

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#90

Having an AI is like having a dedicated assistant or junior programmer that sometimes has senior-level insights. I use it to do tedious tasks where I don't care about the code - like today I used it to generate a static web page that let me experiment with the spring-ai chat bot code I was writing - basic. But yesterday it was able to track down the cause of a very obscure bug having to do with a pom.xml loading two…

This is the take when you haven't really tried driving these tools with much practice
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