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Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

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Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#81

Post by btown »

anonymouz wrote: post #65
ricardobeat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you're a space explorer, at the very edge of civilization and technology, pushing the human race forward and signing your name in history for the next thousand years.

I am all for people being motivated by a higher calling and trying to be explorers, but you'd better forget about the "signing your name into history" bit. Unless you're one of the very first or do something very special, very few people will remember you. Could you, off the top of your head, recount the names of all the Apollo astronauts? Could you list, even with some research, say, the first 100 people from Europe…

Even if you don't remember their names, though, you can recall the fact that there existed Apollo astronauts, men who were brave enough to go on those pioneering missions.

DHH put it very eloquently in an essay 4 years ago: http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1437-put-a-dent-in-the-univer... -

"The key is that your efforts would be missed, your customers would have a sense of loss, if you stopped doing what you’re doing."

Imagine if history said this about Apollo: "The technology was there, but in the end, we lacked people brave enough to risk the voyage. So the project stagnated, the rockets languished on the launching pads. And America moved on, a president's promise forgotten."

I'd say the nameless astronaut makes a pretty big dent.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#82

Post by _k »

enraged_camel wrote: post #18
statusgraph wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My (limited) understanding is you can still argue prior art to invalidate the patent. First to file would only come up if both SpaceX and a Chinese company had patents and went to court. The wiki article expounds a little: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy-Smith_America_Invents_Act...

>>First to file would only come up if both SpaceX and a Chinese company had patents and went to court. If they went to court in the same country , you mean.

I've seen companies enter into a partnership with a Chinese company to manufacture niche products. A few years in, the partnership is stopped and the Chinese company copies everything, shows up on trade shows, etc. There's nothing you can do about it. Patents don't matter in China. Customers buy the products in China.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#83

Post by jpxxx »

marvin wrote: post #68
jpxxx wrote: post #52

The complexity of getting to Mars is nothing compared to the complexity of creating a social unit that can survive and thrive on another planet. Specifically, an Antarctic planet covered in chlorinated brominated rusty dust with essentially no air pressure or atmospheric water, a dim sun, rotten weather, two ugly little moons, and 57,600,000 millisecond ping times. No chance to ever feel fresh air on your face, no ch…

Seriously, are dismissive and pessimistic remarks like this the top-voted comment on _every single_ Hacker News post these days? Elon Musk has built a fucking space rocket company and is defeating Boeing, Lockheed Martin and MDD in a business they've dominated for the last 40 years. I think this is an incredibly impressive accomplishment, and SpaceX's ambitions to make it possible to do manned missions to Mars is exa…

Sure. Elon Musk is a heroic man. His car company is a marvel, and his space program is spectacular. His unfettered ability to speak without a mouth full of funder's cock or a PR minder sitting in the room is refreshing. His visions are grounded in technical and physical reality, his powers of observation are keen, and he has the personality and resources it takes to organize people in service of great accomplishments.

Sanely priced two-way trips to Mars will change the course of humanity by enabling us to colonize the solar system and perhaps ensure a longer story for all mankind. This is the most interesting thing I've read all day, and he deserves every bit of attention.

Now back to your regularly scheduled pessimism:

Humanity has a long way to go, and a change of scenery isn't going to do all that much for her. The United States of America with her vast resources and impeccable pedigree in advancing Enlightenment is operating a torture camp for political prisoners in a subtropical shithole.

What exactly happens when we send a thousand of our best and brightest and edgiest and most ambitious to live in what is essentially an submarine entombed underground for a decade? Do they live up to the Star Trek ideal? Or do they do what people in confined spaces tend to do?

Can we provide a reasonable quality of life for colonists? Beyond maintaining air pressure and food, can we provide for them spiritually and emotionally? Can we provide a -life-? Geology only gets you so far. Even on Earth it's kind of an obscure trade, and geology is about all there is to -do- on Mars.

What does a day to day life look like there? Do the children go to school? How is conflict handled? Who participates in what activities? What if there is too much to do? What if there isn't enough to do? How do you settle transplanetary custody battles when it means mommy or daddy taking the kid on a potentially lethal trip to another planet? How do you handle disease when everyone's in a thousand foot wide sphere? How do you bury people on an igneous planet? What does suicide mean for a Martian civilization?

There are a billion things to consider, and Elon has the first five thousand handled. I am delighted that we get to think about the rest now.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#84

Post by nova »

ballooney wrote: post #11
catch23 wrote: post #3

There's one interesting quote in the article: Musk: I can’t tell you much. We have essentially no patents in SpaceX. Our primary long-term competition is in China—if we published patents, it would be farcical, because the Chinese would just use them as a recipe book. If your process/ideas are sufficiently complex, it reduces competition if you don't file a patent.

Lots of industries do this. Patents are useful when it's obvious what your idea is, and where it's easy for people/competitors to have have a poke inside. Like a vacuum cleaner or a non-reflective mobile-phone screen coating, or one-click or something like that. But for industries where that's not the case, like rockets (my current) or to pick another example from a previous job, magnetic bearings for sub-sea tubo-ma…

So, in really complex and advanced stuff, patents aren't worth it and companies revert to trade secrets and the take-the-secret-to-the-tomb approach, the very same thing the existence of patents is intended to avoid.

And in more accessible industries, where knowledge is abundant, costs low and independent reinvention highly probable, patents stall and block and create monopolies and in general cause economic damage in wasted time and money.

Man, we sure got a sweet deal out of this.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#85

Post by jpxxx »

martincmartin wrote: post #71
forgottenpaswrd wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Men wanted for a hazardous journey. Small wages, bitter cold. Long months of complete darkness. Constant danger, safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in case of success." More than 5000 applications followed. Not everybody is made for adventure though.

This was the ad that Shackleton placed in the paper to find a crew for his most famous expedition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Trans-Antarctic_Expedi...

If anyone here hasn't, Ernest Shackleton's 'South' is basically mandatory reading. It's his own book about his own experiences, it's dispassionate and yet wildly exciting, and even though you know how it ends, you're on the edge of your seat. Superb adventure.

http://www.amazon.com/South-Endurance-Expedition-Ernest-Shac...

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#86

Post by indiecore »

jpxxx wrote: post #83
marvin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, are dismissive and pessimistic remarks like this the top-voted comment on _every single_ Hacker News post these days? Elon Musk has built a fucking space rocket company and is defeating Boeing, Lockheed Martin and MDD in a business they've dominated for the last 40 years. I think this is an incredibly impressive accomplishment, and SpaceX's ambitions to make it possible to do manned missions to Mars is exa…

Sure. Elon Musk is a heroic man. His car company is a marvel, and his space program is spectacular. His unfettered ability to speak without a mouth full of funder's cock or a PR minder sitting in the room is refreshing. His visions are grounded in technical and physical reality, his powers of observation are keen, and he has the personality and resources it takes to organize people in service of great accomplishments…

>What exactly happens when we send a thousand of our best and brightest and edgiest and most ambitious to live in what is essentially an submarine entombed underground for a decade?

That's what we're trying to find out.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#87

Post by trafficlight »

damoncali wrote: post #75
marvin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, are dismissive and pessimistic remarks like this the top-voted comment on _every single_ Hacker News post these days? Elon Musk has built a fucking space rocket company and is defeating Boeing, Lockheed Martin and MDD in a business they've dominated for the last 40 years. I think this is an incredibly impressive accomplishment, and SpaceX's ambitions to make it possible to do manned missions to Mars is exa…

I think you're being a bit hyperbolic. Musk built a small aerospace company. He's not exactly crushing Boeing.

Not crushing, but he's competing with them and that's impressive.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#88

Post by Osmium »

starpilot wrote: post #78
Osmium wrote: post #14

Apologies for being somewhat off-topic, but does anybody know if there are citizenship requirements for working at a place like SpaceX? I have a solid background in materials science and metallurgy from a world-class university, and find what Musk is doing very inspirational. After I finish my PhD, I'd love to be a part of it, but I'm British and I know with some companies in the industry there're citizenship require…

It's not that hard to become a US permanent resident. SpaceX doesn't hire many PhD's though, they're quite manufacturing/design oriented. The guys I knew who got in were all bachelor's and master's holders with hands-on experience building stuff that flies (mostly via student projects) and high gpa's (3.7+) from good schools.

Thanks for the info and the advice. I know my PhD isn't going to help me, at least not directly, because it's only peripherally related but my undergrad background is very solid. I've also interned at Rolls-Royce working on jet engines, and I know the kind of materials design issues they'll be running up against. e.g. in the article he mentions stir welding, something I've studied (and had the pleasure of visiting the organisation that developed it, TWI). So while I don't have actual "hands-on" experience building stuff that flies, I still think I could be useful.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#89

Post by nickzarzycki »

jpxxx wrote: post #83
marvin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, are dismissive and pessimistic remarks like this the top-voted comment on _every single_ Hacker News post these days? Elon Musk has built a fucking space rocket company and is defeating Boeing, Lockheed Martin and MDD in a business they've dominated for the last 40 years. I think this is an incredibly impressive accomplishment, and SpaceX's ambitions to make it possible to do manned missions to Mars is exa…

Sure. Elon Musk is a heroic man. His car company is a marvel, and his space program is spectacular. His unfettered ability to speak without a mouth full of funder's cock or a PR minder sitting in the room is refreshing. His visions are grounded in technical and physical reality, his powers of observation are keen, and he has the personality and resources it takes to organize people in service of great accomplishments…

>I am delighted

You certainly don't sound like it.

Re: Elon Musk’s Mission to Mars

#90

Post by easy_rider »

Thans it, i'm making a shrine for Elon. He's close to a demi-god as you can get. Officially my new hero. Just think about the shear amount of time he puts into Tesla motors alone. And Elon just says fuck it. Lets go to Mars. Humanity doen't want to live up to their potential? So I will.. god speed Leon.
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