The part I can't get past, where would you source live human brain cells? Does anyone have insight into how you would even start to source or grow/create the cells? Also the machines look very organic and clearly have to keep the cells alive. Do they have to change them out every so often?
There's a number of "immortal" human cell lines dating back to as far as the 1950s (you may have heard of Henrietta Lacks? [1] and the immortal HeLa cell line). Today there are several immortalized neuron cell lines used in research to model neuronal function, like HeLa but of neuron type obviously, that are also typically derived from tumours (e.g., SH-SY5Y, PC12) or immortalized via genetic modification (e.g., v-my…
Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
81–90 of 291 posts
Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think "MMAcevedo" basically nails it: https://qntm.org/mmacevedo
I don't think it's a best example. MMAcevedo is about running a real human mind on a different substrate (for science, for labor, or to torture it for fun a million times, I guess, by a bored teenager who got the image from torrents). Scaling up these neuron cultures is rather something like "head cheese" from Greg Egan's "Rifters" novels (artificial "brains" trained to do network filtering, anti-malware combat etc.)…
By Peter Watts actually.
Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#83Be sure to dig into the details before taking this at face value. There once was a story "Rat brain flies plane" a couple decades ago, and it turned out to be bogus. But to find that out, you had to read the paper and reverse engineer that nothing substantial was actually going on. It's tempting to be charitable, but you can't really know whether headlines like this are legit till you understand exactly what they did…
Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#84Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
I looked into it. They're not feeding the framebuffer to the neurons, but have a "signal" when an enemy is on screen to some of the tissue's inputs, and how to locate it in the x/y axis, and have outputs for the character to turn right or left or fire. It's "see this input signal, send these output signals", which seems consistent with the title. It seems they grow the neural tissue on a chip the neurons can interfac…
> We know this is only 200,000 neurons. Dogs have 500 million. Humans have billions. But where is the line for sentience, awareness? Have we defined it? If this concern is genuine, I think the first step is to embrace veganism. Because while we don't know the exact offset, it's pretty obvious a dog or a pig reaches it > What are the plans to scale up? I don't know, slavery on an unimaginable scale? That's where AI is…
Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a number of "immortal" human cell lines dating back to as far as the 1950s (you may have heard of Henrietta Lacks? [1] and the immortal HeLa cell line). Today there are several immortalized neuron cell lines used in research to model neuronal function, like HeLa but of neuron type obviously, that are also typically derived from tumours (e.g., SH-SY5Y, PC12) or immortalized via genetic modification (e.g., v-my…
This definitely helped with my disgust reaction.
I ask as someone who's has personally experienced loss of several loved ones from cancer (as most people my age probably have), but doesn't share your aversion to this particular use case (research.)
Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
This definitely helped with my disgust reaction.
Besides not getting consent in the case of HeLa, which part do you find problematic? Cancerous cell's ability to self-clone/grow is as much a feature as it is a bug in this particular use case. I ask as someone who's has personally experienced loss of several loved ones from cancer (as most people my age probably have), but doesn't share your aversion to this particular use case (research.)
Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#88I was under the impression that the relative intelligence of humans versus other animals was largely a function of brain cell quantity, not quality. Can 200k human brain cells really learn faster than 200k mouse brain cells?
A more cynical take is that they're just using human brain cells for shock value. They chose DOOM because of the "can it run DOOM" meme, so they clearly value publicity a lot.
Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> rhetoric as a real answer Why is it rhetoric? This goes beyond whatever malignant thing was perceived in this study, but why is it a rhetorical non-answer? > we, deep down, know is bad this feels like real rhetoric.
> Why is it rhetoric? This goes beyond whatever malignant thing was perceived in this study, but why is it a rhetorical non-answer? You seem hung-up on my using the word rhetoric. Just so we’re on the same page here: > rhetoric, n : the art of speaking or writing effectively: b)the study of writing or speaking as a means of communication or persuasion The business writing class I took in college was called Business R…
When used in the negative sense it is, per https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/rhetoric
"disapproving -> clever language that sounds good but is not sincere or has no real meaning"
Are you implying you mean something other than this sense of the word?
Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's a best example. MMAcevedo is about running a real human mind on a different substrate (for science, for labor, or to torture it for fun a million times, I guess, by a bored teenager who got the image from torrents). Scaling up these neuron cultures is rather something like "head cheese" from Greg Egan's "Rifters" novels (artificial "brains" trained to do network filtering, anti-malware combat etc.)…
>Greg Egan's "Rifters" By Peter Watts actually.