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Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

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Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#81

Post by nradov »

soperj wrote: post #76
nradov wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of evidence are you looking for? The current general system of free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy has created an unprecedented era of prosperity for those of us lucky enough to live in (relatively) civilized countries. There are lots of problems that we need to fix but on average by almost any objective metric the situation is better than ever.

> free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy has created an unprecedented era of prosperity can you prove that it's free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy? because i see this opinion espoused a lot online.

Can you prove it's not? At this point if anyone wants to propose an alternative then the burden of proof is on them. So far everything else that we've tried has failed disastrously.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#82

Post by Y-bar »

giantg2 wrote: post #73
Y-bar wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Family used to own stock in a local ski resort (publicly traded), all shareholders were entitled to half price on lift tickets and some other perks. It was a great way to save a bit of money, get a dividend, and have a voice on any future expansion plans at the annual meeting. Edit to add: Seems even Disney did offer perks as well to shareholders, https://www.disboards.com/threads/do-you-own-disney-stock-wh...

Is it still in business? My very limited experience makes it seem like the places that mix share ownership with discounts don't survive.

They had ups and downs of course. The tourism industry can turn sour during a downturn as you might understand. But they weathered for 40 or so years until a bear killed a handler in the summer of 2017 at their wildlife park. This effectively killed the entire park business and forced a major reconstruction. A former major bank CEO offered to buy it wholesale and took it fully private via majority buy-out.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#83

Post by derriz »

roughly wrote: post #43
ericmay wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good quote, but it is misapplied here. Nothing is stopping you from investing in a company, or putting your money into a stock or other investment. If anything, over the years the club has become a lot less exclusive. When did Carlin say that? Think about how much more access any given person, at least in the United States, has to financial products.

Right, just like all of those people who put their money into Brewdog and then got nothing for it, while the larger investors potentially got made whole. It's almost like there's two classes of investors or something - common people, and then another smaller set - a club, say - that the common people are not part of. You do not have access to the investments or financial instruments that the ultrawealthy do. Your inv…

No equity holders got anything out of the liquidation - whether big or small [1]. Preference shares are just as worthless as common stock if there isn’t enough money to cover debt, tax bills, employee statuary entitlements/outstanding pay, bank loans, etc.

[1] https://littlelaw.co.uk/p/the-1-billion-brewdog-deal-that-le...

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#84

Post by mikkupikku »

charcircuit wrote: post #78
medwards666 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis in the UK is still illegal, so unless you're picking up weed from your local dealer, it's not a big thing outside the home. But price of booze is killing pubs here. Getting close to £8 a pint now in London. £10 for a pint of Guinness in many bars.

It's still illegal in the US too.

Federally but the feds don't enforce it. And it being legal in so many states has made it broadly available to anybody that wants it, one road trip to another state is very easy and almost seems normal compared to needing to know a "dealer."

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#85

Post by mikkupikku »

dangus wrote: post #55
mikkupikku wrote: post #5

I've been hearing buzz that the whole alcohol industry is in trouble, from a perfect storm of cultural changes that culminate in young people drinking less, and particularly drinking less in bars. With that context, it seems notable that the booze company in question here was purchased by a "beverage and medical cannabis " corp.

The craft brewing industry became over-saturated. I also think product has suffered. I seem to remember more interesting and very good beers available. Like, where did all the fabulous Gose varieties go? It seems like everything available today is a hazy IPA or a basic lager. There used to be such a breadth of flavors. The other child comments about GLP-1 is also correct. That also seems to be a source of the protein…

I'm convinced the "craft beer" industry settled on IPAs not due to genuine consumer demand, but rather manufactured demand for IPAs because IPAs are more tolerant of faults in the brewing process and therefore have lower production costs (less wastage.) This is because when an IPA turns out particularly poorly, it can be bottled anyway and if anybody points out that it tastes like silty skunk ass (all my homebrews, BTW) some nearby IPA enthusiast will be sure to scoff that the complainant just can't handle the hops.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#86

Post by KellyCriterion »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #49
crmd wrote: post #44

20+ years in tech and finance and I still can’t believe liquidation preferences are legal. Even among shareholders, a group of insiders in a conference room can self-deal to keep all the money for themselves and screw common stockholders who had no representation in that room.

Well, thats what "free markets" (tm) allow you to do (-:

For the downvoters, I do not know why:

This is actually percisely one of the main ingredients of a "(whatever) free market" - to put in a contract what you want as long as it is not against the law.

?

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#87

Post by roughly »

derriz wrote: post #83
roughly wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, just like all of those people who put their money into Brewdog and then got nothing for it, while the larger investors potentially got made whole. It's almost like there's two classes of investors or something - common people, and then another smaller set - a club, say - that the common people are not part of. You do not have access to the investments or financial instruments that the ultrawealthy do. Your inv…

No equity holders got anything out of the liquidation - whether big or small [1]. Preference shares are just as worthless as common stock if there isn’t enough money to cover debt, tax bills, employee statuary entitlements/outstanding pay, bank loans, etc. [1] https://littlelaw.co.uk/p/the-1-billion-brewdog-deal-that-le...

> No equity holders got anything out of the liquidation - whether big or small

This statement is not supported by the link you posted, nor any other reporting I've seen on the matter. What I have seen is that TSG is senior to all of the other equity holders, so if there's money to be had, they're getting it before the small holders.

Also from your link:

> TSG was promised an 18% compound return on its investment (which means the amount they’re owed grows by 18% each year, with each year building on the last).

> TSG’s preference shares entitle it to an 18% compound return on its £213 million investment. That return has snowballed over time. By 2024, it had grown to around £801 million.

I can't say for sure, but I don't believe those terms were available to the average investor.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#88

Post by a_f »

cyberpunk wrote: post #58
ducktastic wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago there was a group formed in the UK to designate cask ale/pub culture to be recognized as intangible cultural heritage through UNESCO-- following Belgium's successful foray into its brewing/beer culture being designated this way. There are a few documentaries on youtube

There is CAMRA, but tbh it seems to mostly be retired people with enormous beer bellies in their 60's who are happy enough to drink bishops finger or doom bar.

> doom bar

Maybe not for much longer: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjendwk7979o

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#89

Post by testfrequency »

mihaaly wrote: post #53
testfrequency wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brewdog is pretty much a TGI Fridays that’s pretending to be edgy. People very much don’t like their beers, the atmosphere feels fake, and there’s significantly better options in any major UK city. It’s a shame they are closing and I feel for the employees, but nobody local really believes they are a respectable place, touristy really. While UK nightlife/drinking/pubs like every other city in the world is slower sinc…

> People very much don’t like their beers, the atmosphere feels fake Sorry, but you don't know 'people'. Not all. You could only speak for yourself here. If you read the article you may realize that some 'people' liked it. here and there. It was not government or military contract that brough in all that money but the 'few' pints added up to the sum. You don't have to look down people to feel good, just have some dri…

It’s ok if you like brewdog.

If you’re from the UK, you’d also know brewdog is not nearly as busy as it once was. Of course people like it because it’s convenient, but so is going to a spoons and paying half as much for the same quality but less cool interior.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#90

Post by ericmay »

roughly wrote: post #43
ericmay wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good quote, but it is misapplied here. Nothing is stopping you from investing in a company, or putting your money into a stock or other investment. If anything, over the years the club has become a lot less exclusive. When did Carlin say that? Think about how much more access any given person, at least in the United States, has to financial products.

Right, just like all of those people who put their money into Brewdog and then got nothing for it, while the larger investors potentially got made whole. It's almost like there's two classes of investors or something - common people, and then another smaller set - a club, say - that the common people are not part of. You do not have access to the investments or financial instruments that the ultrawealthy do. Your inv…

> Right, just like all of those people who put their money into Brewdog and then got nothing for it

Just like anyone who puts their money into an investment that fails... Stocks go up, stocks go down. I don't recall the exact details of the Brewdog investment scheme but some people losing their hat here is just a normal thing that happens in capital markets, otherwise investing wouldn't work. There's a reason that the predominant advice is to just set it and forget it with S&P 500 funds or total market (US or global) funds. It's up to you as an independent person to identify good opportunities for yourself or to consume and understand advice.

> You do not have access to the investments or financial instruments that the ultrawealthy do. Your investments are not like their investments, your returns are not their returns, the rules and regulations you face are not the ones they face. They are playing a different game than you, even when they're doing it with your money.

This is directionally true and angsty but it's beside the point. What's the alternative? Nobody gets to invest in anything?

While "the wealthy" have access to other opportunities that you don't have access to, you still have access to enough opportunities to make money.

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