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Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

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Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#81

Post by FarmerPotato »

ThisNameIsTaken wrote: post #78
FarmerPotato wrote: post #75

I believe Tove Jansson also painted the color cover for the first authorized American edition of Fellowship of the Ring (1965). In _Letters_ one can read Tolkien’s reaction. He was quite taken aback, calling out the Emus (!) in the foreground. As if “ the illustrator hadn’t read my book.” The 1973 Ballantine editions carried only Tolkien’s own paintings on the covers and slipcase. I only learned of her involvement af…

It seems those were drawn by Barbara Remington [1] who didn't have time to read the books before making her illustrations. Apparently, the Lord of the Rings was in public domain in the US for a short while, so the publisher (and Tolkien) had to rush for a new 'authorized' version. [1]: https://arrgle.com/emus-and-piracy-the-story-behind-the-lord...

Oh. Well that puts the emus out to pasture. So, two illustrators Tolkien wasn’t pleased with. I see how I conflated them.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#82

Post by taneq »

boringg wrote: post #39
jfengel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tolkien made significant changes to the Gollum chapter. In the first edition Gollum gives up the ring willingly. The ring was not yet the Ring, and Gollum was not yet a Hobbit. The man took retcons as an intellectual challenge. Sometimes the retcon itself spun off a whole new story. But it makes The Hobbit really incompatible with its own sequel, even after his changes. (You have to read it as having a very unreliabl…

Clarifying question -- what do you mean Gollum was not yet a Hobbit? I don't think he ever was - but a river folk before the ring deprived him wasn't he? I never read first edition so I suspect there are some differences as you allude. (ring not being the ring). Actually - in the creative process did he kick off the Hobbit then expand into the world building as an after thought and turn the one ring into this wild ex…

Gollum was retconned to be a hobbit after the illustrations were done.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#83

Post by taneq »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #5

These are lovely. I knew about the Moomins of course but I didn't know about the other stuff she did, some of which I really like. I wish the website had more of the illustrations but I guess there might be copyright issues. I'd be particularly interested in seeing more of her illustrations for Alice in Wonderland and The Hunting of the Snark (the latter is a great poem if you haven't read it: https://www.gutenberg.o…

Does anyone here not know that ‘twas brillig, when the slithey toves did gyre and gimbal in the wabe?

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#84

Post by vidarh »

olelele wrote: post #76
jojobas wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moomins don't depict anything like saving the world, it's a whimsical universe dealing with whimsical non-issues. I can see why Tolkien lovers are upset at these even though I'm not really one of them.

There is an enormous difference in tone if you actually read any of Tove Janssons books. The animated moomin series is childish and cute. The world of the books is dark and scary and contains monsters and threats that are almost lovecraftian. The moomin trolls are victims to their surroundings and the forces of nature...

At least one of the adaptations as of the 1980's also had moments that were very much dark and scary as a child. I haven't read or seen anything of the Moomins since, but I think the Groke might have been one of the things that freaked me out.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#85

Post by michalu »

Very typical arrogance of the so-called modern "artist" mind - "it was an adventure for me", getting an assignment to complement a great work of art and making it about herself.

The problem with these modern artists is they're not working hard to improve a skill, but rather keep doing more of what comes easy hoping the world maybe recognizes their "natural genius" ... as a result they go hard on pushing that one thing unique to them (whatever it is, scriblles, splashes, infantile characters) ...

And yeah let's not forget the "you just don't understand modern art" shaming.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#86

Post by fennecbutt »

taneq wrote: post #70
fifilura wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why rude?

Agree that the post comes across as rude in tone, but it’s never explicitly disparaging. Might just be an overly direct tone (non-native English speaker, or maybe on the spectrum?)

Nah just sounds like people can't handle what they say being questioned as per usual. We should never take offense to being asked to clarify or explain when someone thinks we're wrong.

I'd only be vaguely offended if they had no grounded reason to think that I'm wrong (and they'd be calling me out for the sake of calling me out).

Communicating ideas is a part of tribalism too. Good brain chemicals when the tribe agrees and bad brain chemicals when they disagree.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#87

Post by i_think_so »

commieneko wrote: post #21

Those are wonderful! It's really interesting to see Jansson's take on the characters and settings. When I read _The Hobbit_ in the early 1970s, there was already a well established tradition of how to portray Tolkien's world. Jansson's seems very fresh to me. Also of interest, and probably just as upsetting to some, is Gene Deitch's version of _The Hobbit_ which was made in the mid 1960s in an attempt to retain the m…

Ugh. That video should have come with a flashing [INFORMATIONAL HAZARD] warning sign.

Tolkien fans, beware. This may ruin your day.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#88

Post by galaxyLogic »

p-e-w wrote: post #29
commieneko wrote: post #21

Those are wonderful! It's really interesting to see Jansson's take on the characters and settings. When I read _The Hobbit_ in the early 1970s, there was already a well established tradition of how to portray Tolkien's world. Jansson's seems very fresh to me. Also of interest, and probably just as upsetting to some, is Gene Deitch's version of _The Hobbit_ which was made in the mid 1960s in an attempt to retain the m…

The Hobbit is today usually viewed through the lens of The Lord of the Rings , and The Lord of the Rings is viewed with the baggage of 70 years of post-Tolkien epic fantasy culture. Being deeply embedded in that culture myself, I must admit that these illustrations don’t appeal to me at all, and don’t match my mental imagery of the story. But I can see how they might have looked like a perfect fit to someone who read…

I inhaled Lord of the Rings on first reading. I lived inside it. And it had no illustrations except maps, right? But later when the movies came out they were a big disappointment for ne, they were not the world I had visited. And they were boring. Had I not read the books before, they might have been just fine.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#89

Post by Thorrez »

orthoxerox wrote: post #68
sarchertech wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s as valid as any art. But as an illustrated book, it’s lacking. If I had read this version as a kid, I’d be extremely confused as to why Gollum was 20 feet tall and wearing a flower crown. And then I’d be mad and consider it a bad illustration. (I’m aware some people think the original version didn’t specify his size. But the 1937 text states “Deep down here by the dark water lived old Gollum, a small slimy creat…

> If there’s a character in a book who is known for wearing a red shirt, you might think it’s interesting to subvert expectations and give him a green shirt. But when the picture with the green shirt appears next to text describing a red shirt, it fails as an illustration. Especially in a book meant for children. Should Aragorn wear pants in the illustrations?

Aragorn isn't in The Hobbit.

Re: Tove Jansson's criticized illustrations of The Hobbit (2023)

#90

Post by xorcist »

jojobas wrote: post #8
summa_tech wrote: post #4

I... actually really liked these. And yes, sure, they aren't completely obedient to Tolkien's descriptions of the characters, but the atmosphere feels right. But then again, I grew up with the Moomins.

Moomins don't depict anything like saving the world, it's a whimsical universe dealing with whimsical non-issues. I can see why Tolkien lovers are upset at these even though I'm not really one of them.

Are you sure you haven't confused these books?

One of the books you mention is about an adventure involving a treasure. The other book is about catastrophic flooding in the first book and a comet that threatens the planet in the second, if I recall correctly. Which one did you think was about saving the world and which one was about whimsical non-issues again?

Of course, you don't have to like the books. They are both children's books. But of all the possible critique this one was particularly strange.

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