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Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

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Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#81
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think they’re refusing all military involvement. Autonomous-decision making is the problematic part.

The US military has deployed fully autonomous weapons systems since 1979. If you're worried about that then you're a little late.

It seems weird to equivocate the capabilities of "ai" in 1979 to what we have now; clearly it is on a different level.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#82
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With current leadership, I think we're closer to Germany in this analogy.

This kind of inflammatory nonsense serves no purpose other than to be insulting and provocative.

I think it signals to other people that they should not feel alone in that "this is all **ed up". To that, I appreciated the comment.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#84
post #68

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

I'm going to give a shout out here to an episode of the excellent podcast Hardcore History , specifically Episode 59: The Destroyer of Worlds [1]. The development of the atomic bomb created a debate in American policy circles about how the US should react. Within a few years, the same debate occurred over developing thermonuclear weapons. The same question kept coming up: what if the enemy has these weapons and we do…

You seem to be laboring under the naive belief that mainland China is a rational actor which will refrain from attacking Taiwan over fear of heavy losses and possible defeat. You might have been correct at some point, but that situation no longer obtains. Xi Jinping has successfully purged all potential rivals and personally taken over centralized control of all important decisions. We have no visibility into his thinking, so we have to assume the worst. If he orders the PLA to go then they'll go, regardless of consequences. Part of preparing for the eventuality involves building more effective autonomous weapons. There is no realistic alternative.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#85

Google has been evil for at least a decade, if not longer than that. This is just pigslop masquerading as a moral stand. What happened to the OG Google that cared about users, prioritized honest search, fast performance, and didn't murder pages with ads?

> evil

They never removed "don't be evil", they just changed where it is in the document.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#86

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

Is there any reason to think that autonomous weapons are a critical strategic capability? It's hard to see what an unpiloted drone can do that a remotely piloted drone can't, other than perhaps human rights violations.

Remotely piloted drones can't operate at long ranges in a conflict against a near-peer adversary such as China. All of the high-bandwidth communications links will be degraded by a combination of jamming, cyber attacks, and anti-satellite weapons. Remote piloting will only be reliable using fiber optic cables (very short range) or direct line-of-sight transmission. So hardly practical in the Pacific theater of operations.

In an existential conflict no one cares about human rights. That's something for the winners to worry about after the shooting stops.

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#87
post #68

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

I'm going to give a shout out here to an episode of the excellent podcast Hardcore History , specifically Episode 59: The Destroyer of Worlds [1]. The development of the atomic bomb created a debate in American policy circles about how the US should react. Within a few years, the same debate occurred over developing thermonuclear weapons. The same question kept coming up: what if the enemy has these weapons and we do…

[flagged]

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#89
post #68

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

I'm going to give a shout out here to an episode of the excellent podcast Hardcore History , specifically Episode 59: The Destroyer of Worlds [1]. The development of the atomic bomb created a debate in American policy circles about how the US should react. Within a few years, the same debate occurred over developing thermonuclear weapons. The same question kept coming up: what if the enemy has these weapons and we do…

> And if China gets AI, they're more than likely to use it to further raise people out of poverty and automate away more menial jobs without making those displaced workers homeless.

Your comment is very optimistic. But the quoted part reminded me of something I heard (again) about China using slave labor in their lithium mines:

https://www.state.gov/forced-labor-in-chinas-xinjiang-region...

Re: Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic

#90

I understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal an…

Do the same thing we did with the nuclear arms race: Treaties to limit and control it.

Obviously, we would have had more political leverage if our leaders had started working on a treaty before they crossed enough moral red lines to start a tech revolt, but we did not elect the sort of leaders that would do that.

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