Why isn't LA repaving streets? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#81

Post by unethical_ban » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 9:58 PM UTC

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #58

stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

A lot of EVs are heavier than SUVs... but don't let facts get in the way of your crusade.

Instead of assuming bad faith and resorting to insults, simply make the point. EVs can cause road damage too, yes.

I would reply that pound for pound EVs create far fewer issues in other categories than its weight-equivalent ICE vehicle, and that to an extent that weight is justified for the urban environment far more than a 2025 Chevy Duramax.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#82

Post by throwpoaster » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 9:59 PM UTC

scoofy wrote: post #70

I have been a Strong Towns follower/member for about 6 years. I really don't think people realize the world of pain we're signing up for by not actually fixing the underlying problem of lack of density and walk-ability and their effect on the municipal budgets of American cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Towns I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesi…

Once I became a Dad, getting socks for Christmas suddenly turned into one of the most thoughtful gifts possible. A self-care item. The flip was very sudden and surprising.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#83

Post by almosthere » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 10:00 PM UTC

[flagged]

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#84

Post by GorbachevyChase » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 10:00 PM UTC

el_nahual wrote: post #56

stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

For people that don't watch the video (I don't even know if this is in the video): road wear is a function of axle weight to the fourth power . [0] That means a 6,000lb escalade creates 3x the road wear than a 4,500 wagoneer from 1990. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

This model is the basis of the 1993 AASHTO guide on a flexible pavement design, which is not the state of the art, but is still commonly used. This is why pavement design is mostly controlled by commercial traffic. For estimation purposes, I would not even consider the load of passenger vehicles in a flexible, pavement design.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#85

Post by ericd » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 10:00 PM UTC

dralley wrote: post #69

deepsun wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard that cars have negligible impact on roads. 99% damage comes from heavy haul trucks, especially those who violate weight restrictions. By the way, I've never seen SCALES OPEN sign for the trucks, it's always SCALES CLOSED, or maybe I'm just extremely unlucky.

The damage scales with weight. Cars cause less damage because they are lighter. Heavier cars still cause greater impact.

It’s extremely super linear, supposedly 4th power of axle weight. So it doesn’t make sense to argue over the relative size of mice when there are elephants around.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#86

Post by scoofy » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 10:00 PM UTC

throwpoaster wrote: post #82

scoofy wrote: post #70

I have been a Strong Towns follower/member for about 6 years. I really don't think people realize the world of pain we're signing up for by not actually fixing the underlying problem of lack of density and walk-ability and their effect on the municipal budgets of American cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Towns I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesi…

Once I became a Dad, getting socks for Christmas suddenly turned into one of the most thoughtful gifts possible. A self-care item. The flip was very sudden and surprising.

I actually chose "socks for Christmas" as a metaphor because the types of people who like socks for Christmas are grown-ups, and grown-ups tend to actually view municipal finance as important and interesting.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#87

Post by slaw » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 10:01 PM UTC

el_nahual wrote: post #56

stock_toaster wrote: post #38

Maybe roads would last longer if we weren't all being forced to buy super heavy SUVs just so automakers can skirt emissions and fuel economy requirements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPm4de6-eTg

For people that don't watch the video (I don't even know if this is in the video): road wear is a function of axle weight to the fourth power . [0] That means a 6,000lb escalade creates 3x the road wear than a 4,500 wagoneer from 1990. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

one garbage truck - 40,000 pounds wears road 2000x than escalade.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#88

Post by BariumBlue » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 10:02 PM UTC

scoofy wrote: post #70

I have been a Strong Towns follower/member for about 6 years. I really don't think people realize the world of pain we're signing up for by not actually fixing the underlying problem of lack of density and walk-ability and their effect on the municipal budgets of American cities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_Towns I know municipal finance is about as exciting socks for Christmas, but if the Strong Towns thesi…

To add to what the central city budget problem is - each new piece of street and road in LA has, on average, not paid for itself in terms of increased revenue from taxes or otherwise.

So for each new street widening, new road, and piece of highway capacity, LA was increasing it's financial liability to revenue ratio.

Add over decades all of the street and road construction that LA has done, and it now has a unsustainable amount of road maintenance it's responsible for compared to the amount of revenue it pulls in. I'm having a hard time finding numbers though so please correct me or add numbers if you can find them.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#89

Post by skrtskrt » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 10:03 PM UTC

egberts1 wrote: post #63

Shifty bureaucrats moving goalposts: not breaking out lane miles into patched fractional mile and full-width lane miles. You will see that patching is more labor intensive per asphalt wear time, thus incurring greater city budget expenditure on average basis.

We actually finally have a great city controller in LA, Kenneth Mejia, who has been working his but off (and literally getting sued by the city) for trying to un-screw the complete lack of accounting that has taken place in LA's budget.

He's active on socials and would definitely be interested in a concept like this to correctly attribute and predict costs if you reach out.

Re: Why isn't LA repaving streets?

#90

Post by skrtskrt » Wed, Feb 25, 2026, 10:03 PM UTC

bahmboo wrote: post #15

Good infrastructure costs money. Citizens don't want to pay for it. The city workers have to figure out how to solve problems. Another fun one is talking about how much was accomplished decades ago when the streets were...decades newer. Go ahead and say it's mismanagement.

The budget is public, it's all going to police and police liability payouts