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Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

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Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#81

Post by akramachamarei »

something765478 wrote: post #63
selectodude wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem with recreational marijuana is that it’s so insanely strong. It would be like giving a child 190 proof azeotropic grain alcohol and being shocked that they immediately vomit. I can’t smoke pot - it’s just too strong. I’ll admit to feeling a bit dumber and foggier after a few weeks of ingesting cannabis nightly though. That’s a real thing.

I've heard that the reason why marijuana is so strong is because it was illegal. The sellers wanted to have stronger weed to make it easier to transport; much like how during prohibition, people would prefer to import distilled alcohol, instead of beer.

Same logic applies to explain the popularity of fentanyl.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#82

Post by nyarlathotep_ »

In my teens/20s, I would have advocated for legalization of marijuana and thought any argument against it was some antiquated, puritanical nonsense.

In the decade+ since, there's no way I'd do so.

I know three personal friends that are long time (allegedly not addicted) heavy marijuana users that all suffer from Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome to the extent that it's effected their daily lives substantially.

Two of the aforementioned are roughly my age, and are half as bright as they were as teens. Neither of them can follow a train of thought particularly well and are difficult to hold conversations with.

How much of this is attributable to how much more powerful "modern" strains (or whatever the geo-engineered differences are) is unknown, but I can't imagine it's not a factor. This is not the dopey "get stoned and play XBox and eat a whole pizza" stuff we had in the 00s.

I'm sure there's plenty of counterexamples or something, but my perspective on this has completely changed, influenced by examples like this.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#83

Post by swed420 »

H8crilA wrote: post #6

I used to read forums for schizophrenics (self disorders fascinate me, look the term up if you want to understand schizophrenia), and it was the consensus there that out of all the recreational drugs cannabis caused the greatest deterioration in one's mental state. Those are generally fairly sick people, but I don't think one can just ignore this signal. I personally went catatonic once after consumption, and I'm not…

But imagine the kind of self-selection you'd find on such a forum. Furthermore, it's been long known that cannabis use can trigger schizophrenia in those who were already genetically predisposed to such. Your observation and the OP are not news worthy, imo. Bad outcomes have also been observed when combined with immature brains.

But for healthy adults, countless have used cannabis for generations without experiencing harmful reactions.

This one's my favorite: https://thereitis.org/mr-x-by-carl-sagan/

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#84

Post by dontwannahearit »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #67
ecshafer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am firmly against marijuana legalization. This is partially because of this insanity of the pro-legalization arguments. When I would see friends/family that started smoking regularly become noticeably less intelligent while pro-legalization proponents would argue there are no negative side-effects, or people who were obviously compelled to smoke every day or as often as they could.... like some sort of addiction, w…

I am firmly in favor of legalizing all drugs, except maybe antibiotics where overuse is causing harm for everyone. The thing is, I 100% agree with your reasons for why it should be outlawed. I just think those are reasons to discourage using it, especially chronically. However, I wholeheartedly believe the government should not have any say in how anyone lives their life, and treats their own body.

…just so long as the government remains responsible for clearing up the mess?

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#85

Post by whattheheckheck »

ecshafer wrote: post #19
everdrive wrote: post #14

Marijuana legalization arguments were my first introduction to motivated reasoning. I was pretty inclined to agree that locking up non-violent drug offenders was a net-harm to society. But, the pro-legalization folks would argue patently crazy things: it cures cancer, the smoke isn't bad for you at all, there are no downsides! etc. It seemed obvious to me that you could make a more realistic argument and just stick t…

I am firmly against marijuana legalization. This is partially because of this insanity of the pro-legalization arguments. When I would see friends/family that started smoking regularly become noticeably less intelligent while pro-legalization proponents would argue there are no negative side-effects, or people who were obviously compelled to smoke every day or as often as they could.... like some sort of addiction, w…

Are you also firmly for alcohol abolition? What about gambling?

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#86

Post by pfannkuchen »

varispeed wrote: post #28
rdtsc wrote: post #26

For what's it worth for an N=1 study I watched a relative's young family fall apart because of cannabis induced psychosis. They had two young kids, husband was smoking pot recreationally (not sure how long he was doing that) but at some point he started hearing aliens talking to him from the cracks in the wall. Naturally you can't just keep doing all the regular life and family stuff when you have more pressing issue…

There is no established causal link between the two. Cannabis is so ubiquitous that it is often the case that people with underlying psychiatric problems find it calms them and then blame cannabis for it if they get worse, because that's saving face in a twisted way. Link is not the same as "it causes it".

In my subjective experience cannabis does tend to nudge some part of the brain into edit mode. What happens afterwords depends on the person.

For me it upended a lot of my alignment with the contemporary consensus morality. Before marijuana I had a sense that the morality wasn’t actually well foundationed, or at least it was equivalent to a religion in that respect, but my mind seemed to avoid thinking about it too much. With marijuana my mind freely went there, and I think a lot of my prior beliefs about the world and social systems ended up being altered.

I haven’t ended up with any diagnosed conditions, but it is inconvenient to have beliefs that are quite different from the societal default, even though in my case I do believe that my way of seeing morality is significantly more accurate on a technical basis than the consensus view. And I suspect this wouldn’t have happened without any marijuana.

I can definitely see how someone with a less analytically oriented mindset could end up going off in weird directions and writing that as a legitimate belief while in edit mode.

We definitely need studies to properly characterize what exactly this edit mode is, but I am not too skeptical about there being some kind of causal link between marijuana and going off the rails mentally, in some individuals and in some environmental conditions.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#87

Post by whattheheckheck »

ecshafer wrote: post #65
something765478 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, do you also think alcohol and tobacco should be banned? I definitely believe that marijuana use can lead to negative consequences, but I still think it is less dangerous than either of those 2 substances.

Yes I do.

Can't have the billionaire sociopath fodder off in lala land... they must be 100% intelligent and productive to continue farming them resources

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#88

Post by ProjectArcturis »

orionsbelt wrote: post #25
H8crilA wrote: post #6

I used to read forums for schizophrenics (self disorders fascinate me, look the term up if you want to understand schizophrenia), and it was the consensus there that out of all the recreational drugs cannabis caused the greatest deterioration in one's mental state. Those are generally fairly sick people, but I don't think one can just ignore this signal. I personally went catatonic once after consumption, and I'm not…

I don’t know what things are like in Amsterdam, but weed being “high quality” is not a good thing. The potency has skyrocketed over the past few decades. It’s like saying you went to Amsterdam to drink alcohol for the first time and had a bottle of tequila and passed out and puked; the fact that it was high quality tequila does not mean it’s better than a low quality glass of wine or beer. The issue is the doses are…

Continuing the analogy, it does mean that they can blame the alcohol and not, say, rohypnol for their outcomes.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#89

Post by ProjectArcturis »

selectodude wrote: post #21
H8crilA wrote: post #6

I used to read forums for schizophrenics (self disorders fascinate me, look the term up if you want to understand schizophrenia), and it was the consensus there that out of all the recreational drugs cannabis caused the greatest deterioration in one's mental state. Those are generally fairly sick people, but I don't think one can just ignore this signal. I personally went catatonic once after consumption, and I'm not…

Problem with recreational marijuana is that it’s so insanely strong. It would be like giving a child 190 proof azeotropic grain alcohol and being shocked that they immediately vomit. I can’t smoke pot - it’s just too strong. I’ll admit to feeling a bit dumber and foggier after a few weeks of ingesting cannabis nightly though. That’s a real thing.

It's weird that people argue it's better for you to consume extra burned plant material to get to the same level of high-ness. If it's stronger, people just use less.

Re: Large study finds link between cannabis use in teens and psychosis later

#90

Post by ProjectArcturis »

nyarlathotep_ wrote: post #82

In my teens/20s, I would have advocated for legalization of marijuana and thought any argument against it was some antiquated, puritanical nonsense. In the decade+ since, there's no way I'd do so. I know three personal friends that are long time (allegedly not addicted) heavy marijuana users that all suffer from Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome to the extent that it's effected their daily lives substantially. Two of…

Do you think their lives would be substantially better if they had been arrested and sentenced to lengthy prison terms?

Alcohol can have a well-documented destructive effect on people's lives. Should it also be made illegal?

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