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VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

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81–90 of 128 posts

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#81

Let me clear some things up as I have experience with places like VTT (but not VTT specifically) in my career. VTT is a company that you pay to run tests for you. You bring them a product, tell them what tests you need done, and then they do them with honesty and expensive well calibrated gear. Frequently you also send engineers along with your product to provide on the spot support for the testing. It's very likely…

> It's incredibly suspect that in a battery capacity test, Donut did not have VTT verify cell weight or dimension.

The report does include a few photos, and the battery does look pretty small on them? So I don't think there's foul play there.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#82
post #52

This doesn't really follow the usual battery scam pattern, does it? Like, EEStor or Nikola with big claims, timelines pushed years out, raise a ton of money, delay forever. Donut announced at CES and said bikes ship Q1 2026 which is weeks from now. They've raised ~€25M total (QuantumScape has burned through $1.5B+). And apparently they're not doing a big fundraise right now either. If it's a scam it seems like a real…

> Does anyone with more battery knowledge know if this could be some kind of supercapacitor hybrid being marketed as a solid-state battery?

A few Youtubers have pushed the "if it's not a scam, it's probably a novel capacitor" hypothesis, but in their video announcing this test series last weekend, Donut Labs claimed "it's not a capacitor", so I don't know what's going on.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#83
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you plase give more information about the scams(not opinions about scam but actual scams where he was exposed) this guy committed?

Who has the burden of proof here? This is absolutely a scam.

Obviously those who claim to be a scam have the burden of proof. Guilty until proven innocent is not a thing, it’s the other way around.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#84
post #52

This doesn't really follow the usual battery scam pattern, does it? Like, EEStor or Nikola with big claims, timelines pushed years out, raise a ton of money, delay forever. Donut announced at CES and said bikes ship Q1 2026 which is weeks from now. They've raised ~€25M total (QuantumScape has burned through $1.5B+). And apparently they're not doing a big fundraise right now either. If it's a scam it seems like a real…

I really want this to be true, but the founder launching AGI 9 months ago doesn't help their credibility a lot. And drip-marketing test results seems like a super weird thing to do, whether it's real or it's not. Don't forget that a lot of scams aren't initially on purpose. Eg Theranos by all accounts very gradually morphed from a mild "fake it till you make it" scheme (mild by Silicon Valley standards at least) into…

The founder reminds me of Kim "Dotcom", which worries me. I hope this thing is legit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#85
It's nice that they have what they claim is a solid state battery. But having a small prototype isn't that big a deal at this point. All the major players have prototype solid state batteries that work. Nobody has volume production yet, and volume production seems to be hard and expensive, according to CATL and Samsung.

Mercedes has a test car with a solid state battery.[1] The battery is from Factorial Energy. There's only one such car, and they don't say how much it cost to make the prototype battery.

Ducati has a test motorcycle with a solid state battery.[2] The battery is from QuantumScape. There's only one such motorcycle.

Here's Fraunhofer IKTS making a solid state battery at lab scale.[3] The whole process is shown. Huge amount of effort to make one coin cell.

Samsung prototype.[4] Samsung has been talking about shipping tiny solid state batteries for wearables in 2026. Still too expensive for cell phones, which gives a sense of cost.

All the serious players can make a prototype by now. But the chemistry that's used for the prototypes may not be suitable for production. They have to balance capacity, weight, charge time, cycle life, manufacturing cost, and materials cost. (Samsung made a battery with a substantial silver content. It works, but that's not going to be a volume product)

These problems will be overcome, because throwing money at them works. The history of the tungsten-filament light bulb is worth reviewing. Making fine tungsten wire is very difficult. From 1913 to 2010, a huge plant in Euclid, Ohio, made most of the tungsten wire for light bulbs. There were a lot of process steps.[5]

[1] https://electrek.co/2025/02/24/mercedes-tests-first-solid-st...

[2] https://www.ducati.com/ww/en/news/ducati-s-electric-research...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SVrp8N-1M

[4] https://news.samsungsdi.com/global/articleView?seq=203

[5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuhapGSexyg

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#86
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who has the burden of proof here? This is absolutely a scam.

Obviously those who claim to be a scam have the burden of proof. Guilty until proven innocent is not a thing, it’s the other way around.

I have this bridge.. it's for sale, interested?

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#88
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want this to be true, but the founder launching AGI 9 months ago doesn't help their credibility a lot. And drip-marketing test results seems like a super weird thing to do, whether it's real or it's not. Don't forget that a lot of scams aren't initially on purpose. Eg Theranos by all accounts very gradually morphed from a mild "fake it till you make it" scheme (mild by Silicon Valley standards at least) into…

> the founder launching AGI 9 months ago Yes, I want this too good to be true battery to be real and that's why I'm looking into such things but this claim is false. He apparently launched "Artificially Superintelligence", which appears to be a marketing term for some architecture this company was working on. The "AGI" term seems to come from people who are going after this CEO. I wasn't able to come up with people w…

[deleted]

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#89

Let me clear some things up as I have experience with places like VTT (but not VTT specifically) in my career. VTT is a company that you pay to run tests for you. You bring them a product, tell them what tests you need done, and then they do them with honesty and expensive well calibrated gear. Frequently you also send engineers along with your product to provide on the spot support for the testing. It's very likely…

Since they are testers and not auditors, what prevents Donut Labs from changing the actual battery sent for testing, selecting whatever works best for that specific test? In aggregate each test would seemingly validate their claims, only nobody ever validated and audited the fact that the same exact battery was used in all the tests.

As many have said, so many red flags around something so exceptionally revolutionary that you'd need extremely strong and unquestionably real proof.

Re: VTT Test Donut Lab Battery Reaches 80% Charge in Under 10 Minutes [pdf]

#90

Let me clear some things up as I have experience with places like VTT (but not VTT specifically) in my career. VTT is a company that you pay to run tests for you. You bring them a product, tell them what tests you need done, and then they do them with honesty and expensive well calibrated gear. Frequently you also send engineers along with your product to provide on the spot support for the testing. It's very likely…

> It's incredibly suspect that in a battery capacity test, Donut did not have VTT verify cell weight or dimension. The report does include a few photos, and the battery does look pretty small on them? So I don't think there's foul play there.

Photos and "looks pretty small" are not technical parameters that you pay tens of thousands for a lab to certify.

There are a bunch of cutting edge cell technologies out there right now with gangbusters specs but have some kind of fatal flaw.

If Donut was serious they would put the full specs of the tested cell in each report, so people could have higher confidence that each tested cell is the same chemistry. VTT would have no issue weighing and measuring each cell before and after testing.

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