Live data from Hacker News

Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

neuroai.science

81–90 of 257 posts

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone says that other psychological factors (which have physical effects) help them sleep and they "bring humanity a bad name"? Maybe think on that a little bit.

No, he said "this gives science a bad name"/"makes people anti-science" because some article published something that contradicts his anecdote of how well he thinks he sleeps. That gives humanity a bad name. And your direct insults do, too (which fortunately have been edited out).

The direct insult where I said "touch some fucking grass"?

I certainly stand by it now.

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think it's fairly reasonable to be irritated people are pushing software based on vibes/feels. You are going to HATE to find out about night-mode in the browser

To be fair, I should have said something like "claiming software has a health benefit based on vibes/feels". I personally prefer the look of night/dark mode (or whatever you call it) in apps and the browser, but I'm not going to claim it makes me healthier or improves my sleep or whatever. If you just like how something looks, that's fine, but there's a difference between "I like how X looks" (subjective opinion) tha…

It's not about how it looks aesthetically, you can feel your eye muscles release tension when you go from light to dark mode.

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#83

These are the kinds of articles that give science a bad name, and that make people anti-science. You might as well try to claim hot tea doesn't help you get to sleep, or reading before bed doesn't, or whatever else you do to wind down. I personally don't care if some narrow hypothesis about blue light and melanopsin is false. I know that low, warm, amber-tinted light in the evening slows me down in a way that low, co…

> These are the kinds of articles that give science a bad name, and that make people anti-science. No, it is attitude like yours that brings humanity a bad name. "Blue light effects" have always had highly questionable evidence behind it, what has been sold and marketed under the guise of it has had _zero_ evidence behind it. But now that you are reminded that it is actually bullshit, you react with skepticism. "Feel…

> "Feels good to me" is hardly evidence to begin with

Where did I say anything like that? Please don't mischaracterize my comment, that's not helpful. It's not that it "feels good", it's that it helps at least some people fall asleep more easily, and I know this from personal experience. And many, many other people have written that it does the same for them.

> "Blue light effects" have always had highly questionable evidence behind it... But now that you are reminded that it is actually bullshit

You're right that the evidence for it is questionable. But you know what else there's no conclusive evidence for? That hot herbal tea helps you fall asleep. Or soothing music. Or bedtime stories. Because the funding usually isn't there to perform the kind of large-scale studies required to establish these things, because it's just not a priority or even a good use of our dollars. And lack of evidence for, is not the same as evidence against.

My point is, nothing in this article does establish that it is "actually bullshit". That's a gross misreading of the science, and that's what I'm criticizing the article over.

People experiment with things and discover what works and what doesn't. Again, nobody's going around complaining that there's no scientific evidence lullabyes don't help put you to sleep. And neither lullabyes, nor turning your lights down to amber, have anything to do with homeopathy. You can't possibly suggest they're doing harm. People aren't using amber lighting at night instead of getting their cancer treated.

But for some reason, low amber lighting to help with sleep makes you and the article author upset? Why? Why does that make you upset, but not hot tea or lullabyes? Or do those make you upset too?

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#84
post #9

They absolutely help my eyes not be so strained. If its placebo, its a working placebo. >Are people actually using Night Shift? >Aggravatingly, yes. What is the authors problem lol? It feels a lot better on eyeballs to use warm light things. Why does he care?

[dead]

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I confirm that this helps me as well. Quite often I don't have any fancy filter, I'm permanently setting display/monitor to low temperature and my eyes/vision couldn't be happier. I don't even need darkmode, regular mode works just fine for me as long as blue light is toned down. Granted, I'm not doing any color correction or anything color sensitive work. I used to have terrible headaches about 20 years ago when I s…

Can you elaborate on “no way back”?

Not OP, but when I got glasses as an adult and while they really improved the sharpness of my vision I could feel my unassisted vision getting worse, so I stopped using them and get by with slightly unfocused but unassisted vision. I assume if I wore them full time my unassisted vision would degrade to the point where I then need the glasses full time.

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I confirm that this helps me as well. Quite often I don't have any fancy filter, I'm permanently setting display/monitor to low temperature and my eyes/vision couldn't be happier. I don't even need darkmode, regular mode works just fine for me as long as blue light is toned down. Granted, I'm not doing any color correction or anything color sensitive work. I used to have terrible headaches about 20 years ago when I s…

Can you elaborate on “no way back”?

I meant that once you decide to wear prescription optics you can’t go back to not wearing them, of course excluding eye surgery. In my case I could stick to good enough vision and luckily 20 years later Im still not wearing glasses. My main point was that I was getting eye strain from blue light and once I reduced it the problem dissapeared.

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#87
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an MD or expert in this field enough to know if OP is right or wrong, but I think it's fairly reasonable to be irritated people are claiming software has a health benefit based on vibes/feels. I thought we as a society had moved on from superstition to evidence-based medicine, but in this very post there are plenty of replies countering OP's scientific analysis and data with anecdotes (which is disappointing…

Is it superstition to deduce that I get gassy after eating beans? I need a scientific study to tell me this? Same for if a screen hurts my eyes (not long term, like truly my eyes hurt) when using bright white colors at night.

[dead]

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#88
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I should have said something like "claiming software has a health benefit based on vibes/feels". I personally prefer the look of night/dark mode (or whatever you call it) in apps and the browser, but I'm not going to claim it makes me healthier or improves my sleep or whatever. If you just like how something looks, that's fine, but there's a difference between "I like how X looks" (subjective opinion) tha…

It's not about how it looks aesthetically, you can feel your eye muscles release tension when you go from light to dark mode.

As someone more trained in science than software, the phrase "you can feel..." is suspicious, even if it's my own feelings.

Not invalid; suspicious.

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#89
post #9

They absolutely help my eyes not be so strained. If its placebo, its a working placebo. >Are people actually using Night Shift? >Aggravatingly, yes. What is the authors problem lol? It feels a lot better on eyeballs to use warm light things. Why does he care?

Are you sure you are not also changing total luminance?

Re: Blue light filters don't work – controlling total luminance is a better bet

#90
post #9

They absolutely help my eyes not be so strained. If its placebo, its a working placebo. >Are people actually using Night Shift? >Aggravatingly, yes. What is the authors problem lol? It feels a lot better on eyeballs to use warm light things. Why does he care?

I actually cannot use my monitor without nightshift, any white page just makes my eyes water, painful even. I had it off for a day when I switched to linux and immediately my eyes started drying out.

Safe to say it works for making your eyes less tired at least.

Post reply on HN