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Farewell, Rust for web

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Re: Farewell, Rust for web

#81

Post by loglog »

onyx228 wrote: post #59
robviren wrote: post #14

I find the dependency creep for both rust and node unfortunate. Almost anything I add explodes the deps and makes me sweat for maintenance, vulnerabilities, etc. I also feel perpetually behind, which I think is basically frontend default mode. Go does the one thing I wish Rust had more of which is a pretty darn great standard library with total backwards compatibility promises. There are awkward things with Go, but m…

The dependency creep keeps on happening in web frameworks where ever you look. I was thinking of this quote from the article: > Take it or leave it, but the web is dynamic by nature. Most of the work is serializing and deserializing data between different systems, be it a database, Redis, external APIs, or template engines. Rust has one of the best (de)serialization libraries in my opinion: serde. And yet, due to the…

php is the only popular language that regularly removes insane legacy cruft (to be fair, they have more insane cruft than almost any other language to begin with).

Re: Farewell, Rust for web

#83

Post by andrewaylett »

tracker1 wrote: post #71
andrewaylett wrote: post #47

It's a throwaway comment in the article, but I feel it's important to push back on: HTML is very definitely a programming language, by any reasonable definition of "programming language". Edit to add: It might not be an imperative language, but having written some HTML and asked the computer to interpret it, the computer now has a programmed capability, determined by what was written, that's repeatable and that was n…

How would one do an if condition or enumerate a list in HTML alone? For that functionality you need another language to generate/manipulate the HTML.. not to mention interpreting HTML for display. HTML is a markup language, it's even in the name... but it's not a complete programming language by any stretch.

It's not Turing-complete, and as you say, it's a markup language and it's not general purpose. But neither is a necessary component of "programming language".

Re: Farewell, Rust for web

#85

Post by Dylan16807 »

andrewaylett wrote: post #47

It's a throwaway comment in the article, but I feel it's important to push back on: HTML is very definitely a programming language, by any reasonable definition of "programming language". Edit to add: It might not be an imperative language, but having written some HTML and asked the computer to interpret it, the computer now has a programmed capability, determined by what was written, that's repeatable and that was n…

Please explain how your edit doesn't apply to a .txt file

Re: Farewell, Rust for web

#86

Post by xnyan »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #20
robviren wrote: post #14

I find the dependency creep for both rust and node unfortunate. Almost anything I add explodes the deps and makes me sweat for maintenance, vulnerabilities, etc. I also feel perpetually behind, which I think is basically frontend default mode. Go does the one thing I wish Rust had more of which is a pretty darn great standard library with total backwards compatibility promises. There are awkward things with Go, but m…

Python used to have a great standard library, too. But now it's stuck with a bunch of obsolete packages and the packaging story for Python is awful. In a decade or so Go the awkward things about Go will have multiplied significantly and it'll have many of the same problems Python currently has.

> the packaging story for Python is awful.

Big caveat that this is just for me personally, but uv has fixed this for me personally. Game changing improvement for Python. Appropriately, uv is written in rust.

Re: Farewell, Rust for web

#87

Post by user205738 »

fuddle wrote: post #9

The TS/React ecosystem is so mature, it's hard for Rust to compete with it. My optimal stack is currently: Rust on the backend, Typescript/React for web with OpenAPI for shared types.

Why not Angilar? React and Angular are not worth comparing directly, but why not use Angular for the web interface?

Re: Farewell, Rust for web

#88

Post by pjerem »

slopinthebag wrote: post #51
robviren wrote: post #14

I find the dependency creep for both rust and node unfortunate. Almost anything I add explodes the deps and makes me sweat for maintenance, vulnerabilities, etc. I also feel perpetually behind, which I think is basically frontend default mode. Go does the one thing I wish Rust had more of which is a pretty darn great standard library with total backwards compatibility promises. There are awkward things with Go, but m…

Those deps have to come from somewhere, right? Unless you're actually rolling your own everything, and with languages that don't have package managers what you end up doing is just adding submodules of various libraries and running their cmake configs, which is at least as insecure as NPM or Crates.io. Go is a bit unique a it has a really substantial stdlib, so you eliminate some of the necessary deps, but it's also…

> Go is a bit unique a it has a really substantial stdlib

It’s not that unique though. I can say that Python and hell, even PHP have pretty complete but also well documented stdlib.

Java is meh tier but C# is also pretty good in this aspect.

It’s totally a choice for Rust not to have a real stdlib and actually I feel like that would maybe make Rust maybe the best language overall.

Re: Farewell, Rust for web

#89

Post by Dylan16807 »

andrewaylett wrote: post #83
tracker1 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one do an if condition or enumerate a list in HTML alone? For that functionality you need another language to generate/manipulate the HTML.. not to mention interpreting HTML for display. HTML is a markup language, it's even in the name... but it's not a complete programming language by any stretch.

It's not Turing-complete, and as you say, it's a markup language and it's not general purpose. But neither is a necessary component of "programming language".

Ifs and enumerations are a simpler requirement than Turing completeness. They're an even more basic version of giving the computer logic to evaluate.

Re: Farewell, Rust for web

#90

Post by JetSetIlly »

tasn wrote: post #18
robviren wrote: post #14

I find the dependency creep for both rust and node unfortunate. Almost anything I add explodes the deps and makes me sweat for maintenance, vulnerabilities, etc. I also feel perpetually behind, which I think is basically frontend default mode. Go does the one thing I wish Rust had more of which is a pretty darn great standard library with total backwards compatibility promises. There are awkward things with Go, but m…

These are two sides of the same coin. Go has its quirks because they put things in the standard library so they can't iterate (in breaking manners), while Rust can iterate and improve ideas much faster as it's driven by the ecosystem. Edit: changed "perfect" to "improve", as I meant "perfect" as "betterment" not in terms of absolute perfection.

The golang.org/x/ namespace is the other half of the standard library in all but name. That gets iterated often.

For stuff in the standard library proper, the versioning system is working well for it. For example, the json library is now at v2. Code relying on the original json API can still be compiled.

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