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Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

semiengineering.com

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Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * The lack of open source hardware tools, workflows, high-quality examples, relative to the gross abundance of open source software, doesn’t help the situation, but I think it is more a symptom than it is a cause. To this, I would point to librelane/yosys/TinyTapeout/waferspace and say there are quite a bit of opportunities to learn stuff and there are oss initiative trying to _do stuff_ in this field. I wouldn't k…

that's all digital though right?

You can submit analog to TinyTapeout now!

Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#82

Why would they? Pay is just much lower, despite the fact that there's way more responsability. I personally know more people who switch from hardware to software than viceversa.

I'd do anything short of murder to get out of software. If I could find a career that paid enough to live somewhere nice and didn't have the horrible working conditions that software does (stack rank, fake agile, unrealistic deadlines, stack rank, etc.) I'd do it in a heartbeat.

>stack rank, fake agile

95% of software jobs in the world never come into touch with stack ranking or fake agile.

> live somewhere nice

If only the remaining 5% of software jobs allows you to "live somewhere nice", then your issue lies with your definition of "somewhere nice".

Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#83
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in my experience people with a software background make much better hardware designers than people with an EE background because they are aware of modern software best practices. I know them. Especially older folks. Ramming all parts on one huge sheet instead of separation by function. Refusing to use buses. Refusing to insert part numbers into schematics so they can just export BoM directly and writing BoM by hand…

Age has an effect, no matter if it's software or electronics. These types learned their trade once, some decades ago, and keep driving like that. If you want old dogs to learn new tricks, teach them. No company has the money to spend nor the inclination to even suggest education to their workers. Companies usually consider that a waste of time and money. I don't know why. Probably because "investing" in your work for…

> If you want old dogs to learn new tricks, teach them

These guys are epitome of arrogance. I have been doing this for N years, you have nothing to teach me! Then the same guy will be staring for several hours straight on a prototype board which is hard shorted because he accidentally created a junction in his schematic. ERC (electrical rules checker) would catch it, if guy would bother to run it...

Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#84
I have a MsC in CS. While I spent half of my career writing device drivers, the other half was doing computer architecture. You could say I had a foot on the low level software side, and the other foot on the high-level hardware side. I found them to be two sides of the same coin. Understanding how hardware folks see the world took a few years, but it was very doable.

My biggest gripe with the semiconductor industry as a career, compared to software, is twofold.

First, it is very concentrated. If you want to make good money there are only a handful of potential employers, and this only a handful of cities/neighborhoods where you will have to live; remote work is theoretically possible but not all employers make it effective. I found this the most frustrating. The upside is that people know this and this tend to stay at the same employer for a long time, so you get to learn from people with a deep understanding of the product, and people are mindful to keep a pleasant work environment.

Second, the pay isn't as good at the top end. If you have FAANG-level skills, you will typically do much better financially there than in the semiconductor industry —with the notable exception of NVidia for the past decade or so.

Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#85

* The fact that there are comments misunderstanding the article, that are talking about PCB Design rather than (Silicon) Chip Design, speaks to the problem facing the chip industry. Total lack of wider awareness and many misunderstandings. * Chip design pays better than software in many cases and many places (US and UK included; but excluding comparisons to Finance/FinTech software, unless you happen to be in hardwar…

If there is a shortage, and engineers are trainable, are there apprenticeships available? I’d gladly move to this field.

Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#86

* The fact that there are comments misunderstanding the article, that are talking about PCB Design rather than (Silicon) Chip Design, speaks to the problem facing the chip industry. Total lack of wider awareness and many misunderstandings. * Chip design pays better than software in many cases and many places (US and UK included; but excluding comparisons to Finance/FinTech software, unless you happen to be in hardwar…

If there is a shortage, and engineers are trainable, are there apprenticeships available? I’d gladly move to this field.

Nah, we don't do that here, instead ideal entry level applicant should have 5y of experience when applying.

Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#87

* The fact that there are comments misunderstanding the article, that are talking about PCB Design rather than (Silicon) Chip Design, speaks to the problem facing the chip industry. Total lack of wider awareness and many misunderstandings. * Chip design pays better than software in many cases and many places (US and UK included; but excluding comparisons to Finance/FinTech software, unless you happen to be in hardwar…

How does one pivot? It seems to me the job market demand is probably even more concentrated than the software market?

Getting an EE degree is always an option — but since CS isn’t an engineering degree getting a second bachelor’s will take four years part-time.

I’m doing that now at ASU and the total requirement for me is 71 semester credits. Maybe I could have found a program for which I only needed 60ish, but that’s the only program in the country with part-time remote classes that will cover what I need (antennas and RF). Someone who is interested in digital design will have more options. (And I haven’t really looked at other countries so YMMV considerably outside the US.)

Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#88

digital circuit design strikes me as a risky gambit for a career, given that almost everyone who ive bumped into in that industry was invariable not actually doing any design, but rather was tasked with writing test cases and verifying the functionality of some specific logical block. tests are ofcourse very important, but fact of the matter is, bright smart and arrogant young engineers-to-be are very eager to show e…

> and now lets count the number of companies that can put up the capital for tape-out: amd, intel, arm, nvidia, meta, aws, google chips, apple, and lets say plus 50 for fintechs, startups, and other 'smaller' orgs. And basically anyone who has a job in tech [1] or someone who just pulled their salary out of the ATM has enough money to do a tapeout with the cash in their hand [2] or chinese students for basically free…

3 designers per silicon org is a ludicrous underestimate

Re: Can a Computer Science Student Be Taught to Design Hardware?

#90

* The fact that there are comments misunderstanding the article, that are talking about PCB Design rather than (Silicon) Chip Design, speaks to the problem facing the chip industry. Total lack of wider awareness and many misunderstandings. * Chip design pays better than software in many cases and many places (US and UK included; but excluding comparisons to Finance/FinTech software, unless you happen to be in hardwar…

If there is a shortage, and engineers are trainable, are there apprenticeships available? I’d gladly move to this field.

In the UK, yes there are apprenticeships available (generally at the bigger companies like Arm) but not a huge number of them.

The new UK Semiconductor Centre has recently been asking (among many other questions) why the industry hasn't taken up the govt apprenticeship schemes more given the lack of engineers. The answers as to why are ultimately "it's complicated".

Your view on the salary during an apprenticeship will depend a lot on where you're coming from and expectations. They're generally lower than UK Median Salary (for any type of job; April 2025 it was £39k) at around £30kpa, but you're being paid to learn (rather than university studies, where you spend to money to learn). Also, god knows why, but the apprenticeships aren't always in the most in-demand areas (though if I had to guess, it would be because there already aren't enough employees to do the in-demand work, let alone spend some of that time training new people... which in the long-term is a disaster but we're in a short-term-thinking kind of world).

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