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I fixed Windows native development

marler8997.github.io

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Re: I fixed Windows native development

#81

Post by torginus »

skissane wrote: post #51
torginus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this also doesn't work on Linux - your system's package manager probably has no idea how to install and handle having multiple versions of packages and headers. That's why docker build environments are a thing - even on Windows. Build scripts are complex, and even though I'm pretty sure VS offers pretty good support for having multiple SDK versions at the same time (that I've used), it only takes a single s…

> Note that this also doesn't work on Linux - your system's package manager probably has no idea how to install and handle having multiple versions of packages and headers. But this isn’t true. Many distros package major versions of GCC/LLVM as separate packages, so you install and use more than one version in parallel, no Docker/etc required It can indeed be true for some things-such as the C library-but often not f…

The closest thing I saw to this was some vendors shipping their SDKs with half the desktop userland (in a similar 'blob' fashion the post complains about), with shell scripts setting up paths so that their libs and tools are found before system ones.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#82

Post by pjmlp »

skissane wrote: post #51
torginus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this also doesn't work on Linux - your system's package manager probably has no idea how to install and handle having multiple versions of packages and headers. That's why docker build environments are a thing - even on Windows. Build scripts are complex, and even though I'm pretty sure VS offers pretty good support for having multiple SDK versions at the same time (that I've used), it only takes a single s…

> Note that this also doesn't work on Linux - your system's package manager probably has no idea how to install and handle having multiple versions of packages and headers. But this isn’t true. Many distros package major versions of GCC/LLVM as separate packages, so you install and use more than one version in parallel, no Docker/etc required It can indeed be true for some things-such as the C library-but often not f…

Until the day there is that symlink, or environment variable with the incorrect value.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#83

Post by zahlman »

its_notjack wrote: post #34

Is this post AI-written? The repeated lists with highlighted key points, the "it's not just [x], but [y]" and "no [a] just [b]" scream LLM to me. It would be good to know how much of this post and this project was human-built.

I was on the fence about such an identification. The first "list with highlighted key points" seemed quite awkward to me and definitely raised suspicion (the overall list doesn't have quite the coherence I'd expect from someone who makes the conscious choice; and the formatting exactly matches the stereotype).

But if this is LLM content then it does seem like the LLMs are still improving. (I suppose the AI flavour could be from Grammarly's new features or something.)

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#84

Post by jezek2 »

okanat wrote: post #73
jezek2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use MingW without any extra libs (no msys), it just uses the ancient msvcrt.dll that is present in all Windows versions, so my programs work even on Windows 2000. Additionally the cross-compiler on Linux also produces binaries with no extra runtime requirements.

You can use Mingw-w64 UCRT or CLANG environments that come with MSYS2. Compared to older Mingw64 environments those link with the latest UCRT so you get almost the same style executable as Visual Studio. The only difference for C is that it uses Mingw exception handling and global initialization code, and it uses Itanium ABI for C++.

But that's the point, I don't want the same style executable as Visual Studio. Having to distribute bunch of DLLs and having worse compatibility is pretty bad.

A major part of the incompatibility with older versions of Windows is just because newer VS runtimes cut the support artifically. That's it. Many programs would otherwise work as-is or with just a little help.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#85

Post by pjmlp »

tgtweak wrote: post #64

Toolchains on linux are not clear from dependency hell either - ever install an npm package that needs cmake underneath? glibc dependencies that can't be resolved because you need two different versions simultaneously in the same build somehow... python in another realm here as well. That shiny c++ project that needs a bleeding edge boost version that is about 6 months away from being included in your package manager…

Which has been fixed on .NET 5 and later.

.NET Framework should only be used for legacy applications.

Unfortunately there are still many around that depend on .NET Framework.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#87

Post by jdthedisciple »

Actually not that complicated: You simply check in a global.json [0] where you specify the sdk and workload versions.

Then you also specify target platform sdk versions in the .csproj file and VS will automatically prompt the developer to install the correct toolchain.

[0] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/global-j...

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#89

Post by nanoxide »

tgtweak wrote: post #64

Toolchains on linux are not clear from dependency hell either - ever install an npm package that needs cmake underneath? glibc dependencies that can't be resolved because you need two different versions simultaneously in the same build somehow... python in another realm here as well. That shiny c++ project that needs a bleeding edge boost version that is about 6 months away from being included in your package manager…

When was the last time you actually used. NET? Because that's absolutely not how it is. The. NET runtime is shipped by default with Windows and updated via WU. Let alone that you're talking about .NET Framework which has been outdated for years.

Re: I fixed Windows native development

#90

Post by pjmlp »

thrownaway561 wrote: post #39

I'm just asking, but is there really a need for a native programs anymore? Where I worked a decade ago, we started porting all our native programs over to the browser and this was when MVC beta was just being released. At this point with Electron and Tauri, is there even a need to write a native program Now with AI, I would think that porting a native program to the browser wouldn't be the chore it once was.

Where do you think Linux gamers get their Proton powered games from?
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