Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Building a TUI is easy now

hatchet.run

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 262 posts

Re: Building a TUI is easy now

#81

Post by abelanger »

Hi everyone, I enjoyed building this TUI for myself and wanted to write down how I did it. I appreciate all the thoughts and feedback! The web app is our main investment, but I think there's a slice of developers who really like to interact with TUIs, so I'm going to keep working on it.

For the demo at https://tui.hatchet.run, to answer some messages asking about it: I built this with the fantastic ghostty-web project (https://github.com/coder/ghostty-web). It's been a while since I've used WASM for anything and this made it really easy. I deployed the demo across six Fly.io regions (hooray stateless apps) to try to minimize the impact of keystroke latency, but I imagine it's still felt by quite a few people.

Re: Building a TUI is easy now

#82

Post by MisterTea »

fragmede wrote: post #18

The problem with TUI's, that we have all Stockholm syndrom'd ourselves, is that I can't use the mouse cursor to click to the position on the screen and edit the command line.

FWIW, Plan 9 windows work this way. They are just plain UTF-8 buffers with no typewriter emulation. You can edit any text you wish. If you want graphics, the draw device is a 2D graphics compositor you load assets into then issue rendering commands. Text is a draw primitive and easily displayed any way you want, angled, rotated, moving around, colorful. VT emulation is accomplished by vt(1) which does VT over stdio and emulates an ANSI typewriter using the draw device and it works well. You could even write a Plan 9 native TUI That way, just run it under vt(1). But I would not recommend that - go native.

Re: Building a TUI is easy now

#83

Post by bloqs »

abelanger wrote: post #64
mrandish wrote: post #60

Alex, It's somewhat ironic that a web page about performant terminal user interfaces uses gratuitously complex CSS mask compositing and cubic gradients which reduce smooth scrolling on my 1 year-old, high-end Dell XPS laptop (>$3k) to Commodore 64 level (on default 'Balanced' battery mode). While it's pretty , it's also just a very subtle, non-critical background animation effect. Not being a CSS guru myself, here's…

You're right - I'll remove that now until we can get it more performant or drop it altogether. This wasn't something we caught during testing. I appreciate the feedback!

[flagged]

Re: Building a TUI is easy now

#84

Post by chrysoprace »

dwb wrote: post #48

I think TUIs-that-want-to-be-GUIs (as opposed to terminal commands just outputting plain text) are sad. Mainly because they’re largely inaccessible. They flatten the structure of a UI under a character stream. You’re forced to use it exactly the way it was designed and no different. Modern GUIs, even web pages too, expose enough structure to the OS to let you use it more freely. I get why people build TUIs, but it’s…

Here's why I use them: many modern graphical applications are extremely wasteful. TUIs are typically small, low footprint applications that don't come bundled with a browser or webview. I don't need yet another electron app for every little thing.

Re: Building a TUI is easy now

#85

Post by worldsayshi »

dwb wrote: post #48

I think TUIs-that-want-to-be-GUIs (as opposed to terminal commands just outputting plain text) are sad. Mainly because they’re largely inaccessible. They flatten the structure of a UI under a character stream. You’re forced to use it exactly the way it was designed and no different. Modern GUIs, even web pages too, expose enough structure to the OS to let you use it more freely. I get why people build TUIs, but it’s…

I think I see your point. I've had it in the back of my head too.

Guess it's like the separation between backend and front-end. When the logic is neatly wrapped in a nice API you can potentially get a lot of reusability from that since the API can be integrated into other things with other use cases.

But a TUI probably doesn't naturally come with a separate backend. However, if a cli is built in a non TUI way it is about as flexible as a backend. Output can be streamed into pipes etc.

I can't stream k9s output into a pipe or variable but I can with kubectl.

Would be nice if we could have the cake and eat it here. Can TUI frameworks encourage having it both ways?

Re: Building a TUI is easy now

#88

Post by sedatk »

mrandish wrote: post #60

Alex, It's somewhat ironic that a web page about performant terminal user interfaces uses gratuitously complex CSS mask compositing and cubic gradients which reduce smooth scrolling on my 1 year-old, high-end Dell XPS laptop (>$3k) to Commodore 64 level (on default 'Balanced' battery mode). While it's pretty , it's also just a very subtle, non-critical background animation effect. Not being a CSS guru myself, here's…

> to Commodore 64 level

That’s unfair to C64 which can smooth scroll very well.

Re: Building a TUI is easy now

#89

Post by zelphirkalt »

abelanger wrote: post #64
mrandish wrote: post #60

Alex, It's somewhat ironic that a web page about performant terminal user interfaces uses gratuitously complex CSS mask compositing and cubic gradients which reduce smooth scrolling on my 1 year-old, high-end Dell XPS laptop (>$3k) to Commodore 64 level (on default 'Balanced' battery mode). While it's pretty , it's also just a very subtle, non-critical background animation effect. Not being a CSS guru myself, here's…

You're right - I'll remove that now until we can get it more performant or drop it altogether. This wasn't something we caught during testing. I appreciate the feedback!

While you are at it, it would be good, if the post was readable at all, without having to run JS on the page.

Re: Building a TUI is easy now

#90

Post by fragmede »

dwb wrote: post #66
dale_glass wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, I think TUIs are a great fit in some problem domains. Think for instance the Debian package configuration dialogs -- they're far more comfortable than the same questions without a TUI, and still work over a serial console if you have to use one. For tools like various kinds of "top", there's many potential tools you can use to the same end and intentionally using one that draws CPU graphs over one that ju…

Sure, I said I understand why people build them. I’ve used a lot of them. And yes with the tools we have you’re right, but I’m more lamenting the wonky, kind of archaic, unintegrated, only-semi-composable toolset that we have. No fundamental reason why you couldn’t deliver more structured UIs directly over SSH or a serial console, it’s just that in this timeline that didn’t happen yet (apart from X forwarding, which…

Yes. Composable GUI is what we're after.
Post reply on HN