It also makes me wonder how many other things I might not know that people are trying to do with cloud platforms that aren’t supported by them but have a negligible performance hit for many use cases.
AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
81–90 of 124 posts
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can use an expensive AWS VM instead of an expensive AWS bare–metal image. Does anyone realise how expensive AWS is, even in the best case?
It is expensive. But the point where it stops being expensive is far above most companies use case. If you're paying less than a developers salary for hosting you most likely won't see all that many benefits from moving. Renting a server from cheaper hosting providers can be massive savings but you now need to re-invent all of the AWS APIs you use or might use and it's big CAPEX time investment. And any new feature y…
If you ever used the aws apis to begin with.
Folks are increasingly staying cloud agnostic - meaning install and run the open source package that a cloud packages yourself.
It’s surprising how many are ready to go today compared to 10 years ago.
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#83This is great news for folks that use microVMs - "we only use AWS" has been an issue for our stuff (slicer services/sandboxes/actuated self-hosted GitHub runners) If anyone here can't wait (as it looks like there's very little info on this at the moment..) I wrote up detailed instructions for Ant Group's KVM-PVM patches. Performance is OK for background servers/tasks, but does take a hit up to 50% on complex builds l…
> Bare-metal on Hetzner now has a setup fee of up to 350 EUR.. you can find some stuff with 0 setup fee, but it's usually quite old kit. I don't understand what you are paying for here, nested virtualization doesn't need any extra setup for hardware compared to normal one ... or you are saying Hetzner wants 350 EUR for turning on normal virtualization option in BIOS ?
They used to charge a fair admin fee like 30-70 EUR for most bare-metal hosts.. now it's 99 EUR for the most basic/cheapest option.. up to 350 EUR for something modest like a 16 Core Ryzen.. monthly fees haven't changed much.
https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ex/ https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Bare-metal on Hetzner now has a setup fee of up to 350 EUR.. you can find some stuff with 0 setup fee, but it's usually quite old kit. I don't understand what you are paying for here, nested virtualization doesn't need any extra setup for hardware compared to normal one ... or you are saying Hetzner wants 350 EUR for turning on normal virtualization option in BIOS ?
Hetzner charges a fee for setting up your bare-metal machine. Often zero for their smaller machines and for those in auction. Probably they don't want someone to order a large fleet large of machines for one month and then cancel. They might not get another customer for those machines soon.
Here's what they say themselves: https://www.hetzner.com/pressroom/statement-setup-fees-adjus...
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Was hoping this comment would be here. Firecracker and microVMs are good use-case. Also, being able to simply test and develop is a nice to have. Nested virtualization can mean a lot of things. Not just full VMs.
> Firecracker and microVMs are good use-case. Good use-case for what?
The poster you asked can reply too - Postgres and microvms are worth considering nearly every time at the start.
Beyond encapsulation it greatly increases the portability of the software between environments and different clouds.
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hetzner charges a fee for setting up your bare-metal machine. Often zero for their smaller machines and for those in auction. Probably they don't want someone to order a large fleet large of machines for one month and then cancel. They might not get another customer for those machines soon.
Here's what they say themselves: https://www.hetzner.com/pressroom/statement-setup-fees-adjus...
Good context. They're commenting only on why are they increasing some setup fees though, not justifying their existence. The Hetzner setup fees were in place already before the RAM price hike.
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can use an expensive AWS VM instead of an expensive AWS bare–metal image. Does anyone realise how expensive AWS is, even in the best case?
It is expensive. But the point where it stops being expensive is far above most companies use case. If you're paying less than a developers salary for hosting you most likely won't see all that many benefits from moving. Renting a server from cheaper hosting providers can be massive savings but you now need to re-invent all of the AWS APIs you use or might use and it's big CAPEX time investment. And any new feature y…
System admins are probably cheaper that Cloud experts devops.
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Bare-metal on Hetzner now has a setup fee of up to 350 EUR.. you can find some stuff with 0 setup fee, but it's usually quite old kit. I don't understand what you are paying for here, nested virtualization doesn't need any extra setup for hardware compared to normal one ... or you are saying Hetzner wants 350 EUR for turning on normal virtualization option in BIOS ?
They used to charge a fair admin fee like 30-70 EUR for most bare-metal hosts.. now it's 99 EUR for the most basic/cheapest option.. up to 350 EUR for something modest like a 16 Core Ryzen.. monthly fees haven't changed much. https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ex/ https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax/
I've never used Hetzner because their terms of service didn't make any sense to me, but a 350 EUR fee for each setup? That almost seems like they don't want business. Every bare metal host I've used had a management interface I could submit a job to in order to reprovision my host at any time. Some even offer a recovery console through this. It takes 1-10 minutes but I'm assuming it was out of band management based, not human interaction.
Worst case I ever had a hard drive failed and I had to wait I think a week for OVH to physically replace it.
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Azure has had nested virt available for a while too. I used to run HyperV in cloud
Azure has recently announced "direct virtualization", which is a sort of logical nesting, in which users can sub-partition their L1 VMs into virtual L2 VMs that are technically siblings. https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/azurecompute/scalin... (I work there)
Cool, so that’s the new and preferred model for nested or sibling virt?
Re: AWS Adds support for nested virtualization
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seriously curious, don’t Firecracker VMs already run on EC2 instances under the hood when they host Lambda and Fargate?
Since I don't work for AWS I'm allowed to say that at the scale of millions/billions of microVMs you're better off running them on bare metal instances to avoid the overhead of nested virtualization.
If I remember correctly, Firecracker VMs don’t have the same security guarantees as EC2 instances. I think I remember that AWS doesn’t put multiple accounts lambdas either on the same bare metal server or VM. I can’t remember which